Does anyone recognize this vertical head attachment?
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  1. #1
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    Default Does anyone recognize this vertical head attachment?

    Hi all,

    I'm hoping someone in here can help with ID'ing what I think is a vertical head or universal head attachment for a horizontal mill. I bought it in a lot of tooling, but can't pick it up till later next week. Keeping my fingers crossed it'll fit, or be easily adaptable to, my van Norman 26.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,

    Lee


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    I'd guess an upside down later (squarish casting) K&T - totally useless without drive gear

    If the face keyed spindle nose is 3 5/8 OD its a NMTB 40 and if 5 1/16 its a NMTB 50

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    Pretty sure this is the drive gear peeking around the corner



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    The K-T I was used to didn't have a mill taper attached to drive gear, but bolted directly to spindle. I have seen a Cincinnati that looked similar to this. It used a #40 taper.

    JH

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    Ok good to know

    I'm guessing it will be adaptable. Question will be how much work it will take :-p

    The configuration of the head looks very similar to the van Norman universal subhead I was looking for. I don't have a pressing need for it at the moment, but I've been on the lookout for any VN accessories for my mill. It'll be fun to see what it turns out to be.

    In the same lot are these 2 pieces. Any thoughts on what these might be?



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    No keys say grinding related I would guess. Old brown head appears to be older single swivel K&T

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    The top photo in post # 5 appears to be a work head for grinding large face mills on a Cincinnati #2 tool and cutter Grinder.
    Like the one shown at the top of the page here.
    A treatise on milling and milling machines. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
    Regards,
    Jim
    P.S.
    Added photos from "Operator's Instruction Book" Cincinnati publication No.M-773-6
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dscf8846.jpg   dscf8847.jpg  
    Last edited by Jim Christie; 09-01-2019 at 11:48 AM.

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    Awesome, thanks! I wonder if I can make it fit on my tiny import T&CG :-p

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    It might be a little big for most other grinders but if it is like mine it has a # 50 milling machine taper in it so you could use it for an inspection or setup stand for larger tooling .
    It looks like you may have a # 50 to 3 40 adapter in it that could be useful also if not on that head perhaps in another one.
    I have one that came with the Cincinnati grinder it was made for but have never needed it .
    I had considered making another large bore spindle for it with a 6 jaw chuck and motorise it to cut off or rough point large badly damaged twist drills prior to finishing on a drill grinder but never got around to that.
    Even though the head its self on mine is made of aluminum it is still quite heavy so not something you’d want to lift of and on the grinder too often with out some kind of handy lifting devise.
    Jim

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    The older looking brown head I might be interested in if its is for sale. I could use one for my old brown and sharpe mill. I have sent you a message as well. Thanks
    Brian

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    Hi Brian,

    I'll likely have some surplus stuff, as there were quite a few items in the lot. I took a chance on it because I'm looking for a universal head for the van Norman and a vertical head for my Hardinge TM. Once I get everything in hand, I'll have a better idea of what's surplus.

    Thanks,

    Lee

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    For example,

    Here's another piece in the same lot. I'm guessing it's a grinder accessory, but no idea beyond that...

    There also appears to be 3 or 4 more grinder workheads like the one Jim identified as a cincinatti

    Lee

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    Yep.. Brownish milling head is K&T..If you get the number off of it you may be able to tell which machine it fits...Usually the drive gear gets divorced from the head at some point and they go their separate ways...It is a crap shoot as to whether or not the gear in the box fits as there are many...A boat anchor without the drive gear .. I found two divorcees for which I had to make gears..Cheers; Ramsay 1

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    That is a radius grinding attachment shown a few pages earlier in the same book as the link as my last post.
    A treatise on milling and milling machines. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
    Un less it came supplied with its own work head it the main part of the regular work head for the Cinicnnati will fit it so I think most times it was sold without the work head .
    There should be an adjustable stop block that bolts separately to the table to stop the swing of the attachment on the lower right of the picture and perhaps one on the left side .
    I’ll have to check later.
    You can see 2 views of the regular work head that you would need to have with the attachment , this one,
    A treatise on milling and milling machines. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
    and the other with the motor drive attached by scrolling down one more page .
    to complete the radius attachment there should also be a micrometer radius locating devise that goes in the tapered hole of the table swivel to locate the cutter radius with respect to the base pivot movement .
    here is a better view
    https://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...attachment.jpg
    From this thread that turned up in and image search .
    Anyone have clue to what this is used with?
    If you scroll through that chapter it shows a good number of the fittings for the # 2 machines from the 1950 s

    If you check there may be other sales literature or an operators manual for the Cincinnati # 2 Cutter Grinder on Vintage Machinery or else where on line that show more .
    I don’t see any more specific to the # 2 the Hathi Trust site.
    There is also another small radius grinding attachment for this machine but I haven’t noticed it in the linked book so far.
    I can perhaps look up some more details or get some pictures from one I have if nothing else turns up.
    Regards,
    Jim
    Added Photos from my copy of the operator's instruction book
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dscf8841.jpg   dscf8842.jpg   dscf8845.jpg   dscf8848.jpg   dscf8852.jpg  

    Last edited by Jim Christie; 09-01-2019 at 11:42 AM.

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    Jim, that's great information thanks!

    Can't wait to pick this stuff up. I'm pretty sure one of the additional workheads in the lot will bolt onto the radius grinding attachment.

    I'm starting to thing I might have to sell my import T&CG and look for a Cincy, as it'll probably be easier/cheaper than modifying this stuff to fit

    Ramsay: are you sure about the dark brown head being a K&T? I wasn't able to find any pictures of similar heads in any of the early brochures - the curvy part of the head always looks a fair bit beefier. That said, I haven't found it in brown and Sharpe brochures either. If anyone has an example to show, that would be fantastic

    Thanks again everyone. So much good information in this forum!

    Lee

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  18. #16
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    Like on page 8

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2098/3418.pdf

    If anyone has an example to show, that would be fantastic

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    Hi John,

    I think we're talking about different parts - the first picture I posted (gray blue milling head) appears to be this, which I found in the K&T S12/S15 brochure after you suggested K&T:


    But, Ramsay suggested K&T for the brown head also (second picture in post #5). That's the one I haven't found any similar pictures of

    Thanks,

    Lee

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    Cincinnati knee mill head

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    Quote Originally Posted by leeko View Post
    Jim, that's great information thanks!

    Can't wait to pick this stuff up. I'm pretty sure one of the additional workheads in the lot will bolt onto the radius grinding attachment.

    I'm starting to thing I might have to sell my import T&CG and look for a Cincy, as it'll probably be easier/cheaper than modifying this stuff to fit

    Ramsay: are you sure about the dark brown head being a K&T? I wasn't able to find any pictures of similar heads in any of the early brochures - the curvy part of the head always looks a fair bit beefier. That said, I haven't found it in brown and Sharpe brochures either. If anyone has an example to show, that would be fantastic

    Thanks again everyone. So much good information in this forum!

    Lee

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    The brown one is swivel head K&T, now I don't know which machine the drive bracket fits but there is a separate drive gear which fits in the spindle of the machine it is used on.. I have one identical to it on my 2hl universal from 1943...There is a number stamped on the drive bracket of that head that may tell you which machine it is for.. Ramsay 1

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    My swivel head on my 1943 2hl universal.... Cheers; Ramsay 1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails swivel.jpg   swivel-1.jpg  


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