Educate me please. Kwik way VL valve resurfacer and FN boring bar
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default Educate me please. Kwik way VL valve resurfacer and FN boring bar

    I recently bought a Kwik Way VL valve resurfacer...pretty sure it's a VL.

    I tried to compare everything. It's one with a very big heavy cabinet underneath it. Has an air Chuck in the back, and 2 big switches and a small one up front.

    I ended up rewiring it when I got it home because the wires were cut for moving it, and the wires were extremely old.

    Pretty sure I got it wired up correctly looking at the manual...but some of it I'm not sure as I couldn't find something on the manual that was on the machine.


    There was a black box with a fan on it right behind the device that has a metal circle cover. Not sure what that does.

    Can somebody give me a brief run down of this machine and how to operate it properly please?

    I get the just of it, but I can't find much info with my specific model. Are they good machines? What should I look out for?


    I am a boat mechanic and enjoy rebuilding engines. I'm tired of paying so much at machine shops and waiting months. I do about 4-10 rebuilds a year. I don't care if it's slow, I just want to be able to do it. I don't care if it's not the perfect quality of job/machine available...I'm not building horsepower. But I do want it done well. Is this what I need?

    Also, I got a FN boring bar...seems to be a popular model, so I can dig into those later....but if you have thoughts on those, that would be appreciated as well!


    Btw, how do I add pictures?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Pics

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,591
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    805

    Default

    You have done very well....nice heavy duty machines....the valve facer is so simple to operate ,no instructions are necessary......dress the wheel ocassionally,and take small cuts of the valves...and use ccolant ,make a big difference ......The boring machine is a very nice one,and you seem to have all the acessories .Id say you will need to get someone who is experienced in cylinder boring to show you what to do.......there is a lot of little detail in cylinder boring,something you must see and do to get right.

  4. Likes Holicori, moonlight machine, alum100k liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,312
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1261
    Likes (Received)
    714

    Default

    Nice stuff! For valve grinding I was taught to feed valve into face of wheel slowly, as soon as it starts making contact sweep back and forth across full face of wheel slowly while slowly feeding it in until you see the full face of valve has been ground. When you think its done stop and inspect, sometimes there are low spots that require a little more, it is best not to remove until finished.

    Boring bar as said above is a bit trickier, you might find an instructional on YT, same with valve grinder. What are you going to do about valve seats? I learned with stones, it does take some practice to do them right, and a little bit of touch, never tried them but have been told the carbide seat cutters are easier to use. You know you need a surfacing machine next

  6. Likes Holicori liked this post
  7. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    60

    Default

    You got the best. I second the part about getting an expert all liquored up and picking their brains (maybe I'm reading between the lines there).

    After the boring bar you get the precision from honing, and there are both modern best practices and old wives tales about how to do that, so be careful there. I used to have a similar KwikWay and the honing was the reason I got rid of it. I liked to be able to do the job myself but it's tedious and dirty work, not to mention the money spent on gauges and standards. I do old bikes, generally two cylinders at most, so it's not that expensive to farm out even though I use an expensive shop. With old bikes it's important to register off the bottom face of the cylinder to get the bore perpendicular to the crank, the top face isn't always in the right place. Not sure if that's a problem with the machines you work on.

    I use Neway hand operated carbide valve and seat cutters. I've never used electric ones, but the Neway is simple and the results are as good as my patience. If you don't have seat cutters then check them out. My experience is don't bother with the "assortment" kit of seat cutters unless you think really you'll use them all. There are two cutters and a bunch of guides from the kit that I've never used, and I had to buy others, especially to get into small hemi heads without hitting either the valve guide or the side of the combustion chamber.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Hey guys! I really do appreciate the advice.

    The Valve grinder seems to be straight forward...I think it's a lot simpler than I expected. Basically cut the vale to the degree I want 45/46 pretty much, cut the end/butt true, and then chamfer the edges of the butt.

    For cutting the seats I picked up some neway cutters. They actually have a kit specifically for Yamaha outboard motors that is put together just for yamaha, not advertised on their site. I figured this is perfect and will probably work with several other outboards as well (mercury, suzuki, etc). If not, I could then just piece meal the rest of the cutters I need.

    So I've got Valves and valve seats covered.

    As far as the boring bar....I'll have to look into that a lot. I'm not so sure how open my machinist will be since I'm essentially cutting him out of the work. But, he's a cool guy and I'd probably be helping him by lightening his load honestly.

    The guy I got it from said he made a different device to clamp the boring bar to the machine. Its essentially a big bar was machined true. That bar sits where the crank sits and then goes through a large circle that leads to the boring bar. I have no clue how much of it is stock or if the entire thing is stock or what. He said it allowed more clamping force through the block than whatever was stock with kwik way. I have an old junk block that I can use to practice.

    I'm assuming when boring you bore out about what, 5 thou before you get your desired bore size (so if I want .020" over, stop at .015") and then take a hone the other 5 thou? How exactly do you measure how much you're taking off though with honing? Is it just a slow process of honing some, mic it, hone more, mic it again, etc until you get your size right? I have a variety of dingle ball hones, but am going to buy one of the nicer lisle hones. Do I use this with something like a drill press/bridgeport or just a simple electric drill?

    I already have all the measuring tools. Mics/bore gauges, magnetic bases for dial gauges, etc. Wouldn't mind a better brand, but mine run pretty damn true once measured. On average I'll probably save around $1000 per engine machining myself. Around here boring a 4 cylinder is around $45-50 and 2 strokes more than that. Side question: I can also do 2 strokes with this boring bar too right? I just have to chamfer the ports...is that as simple as working a file around the edges at a 45* angle or so?

    Im going to post a couple more pictures.

    On the resurfacer...what is this square black box with a little fan on the back of this piece with the moving circle piece. And what exactly is that little thing in there (its got some surface rust on it)? It looks like it can be adjusted some.

    And then here is a picture of that new piece the other machinist made. It looks like it clamps on the bar in the crank...then the bolts unscrew to take up slack in the cylinder. My thoughts are...wouldn't the bolts being on the cylinder walls hurt the cylinder walls?

    Btw, I was able to pick both up for $2,100. Also got a valve spring reading tool as well. I absolutely want a resurfacer machine! That is the last thing I want for my little "shop" simply because those are the jobs that really need to be done anytime you build an engine. I don't often need a crank ground, or balanced, or lined honed. For that type of stuff I can just send out. I've been looking at the Storm Vulcan 85b for resurfacing but those seem to be around $6,000 and none near me. I've also looked at bridgeport mills for resurfacing heads. I've heard it absolutely can't be done on bridgeports and have true heads...but I've also heard by many it can be. Some of the machinist near me use them for decking heads. And they are cheaper and more versatile too. Thoughts?

    If anybody has any spare time and have the urge to teach a rookie I wouldn't mind a call at all. 850-368-1786

  9. #7
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Pics

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    jacksonville,fl.
    Posts
    1,186
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1014
    Likes (Received)
    392

    Default

    You need to figure what you intend to do about valve guides as that the first thing you need to access when doing valve jobs.It all starts with the guides.

    Best is to replace,next install inserts and last knurl or broach and ream.

  11. Likes alum100k liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ratbldr427 View Post
    You need to figure what you intend to do about valve guides as that the first thing you need to access when doing valve jobs.It all starts with the guides.

    Best is to replace,next install inserts and last knurl or broach and ream.
    Walk me through that process. Is it something a regular guy like myself can do? Do they just simply press in and press out?

    How do you access them? I'd assume with a very small t style gauge and check for taper?

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,591
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    805

    Default

    A lot of engines do not have separate guides (ie...not removable)....these motors you can either use oversize valve stems ,and ream the guides,or the guides must be lined .....there is a whole lot of expensive kit about for doing this .....dont get sucked in to junk ,only consider a reputable system......As for doing rebores ,even the best operators sometimes stuff up,and its best to limit yourself to common ,easily replaceable blocks at first......IE ...dont do rare vintage cars.

  14. Likes Holicori liked this post
  15. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,591
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    805

    Default

    Surfacing heads and blocks ....when I was working,a mechanic near me used to surface heads and blocks with a sanding disc in an angle grinder ....after I explained the theory to him.....he stepped up to a 1/2 sheet air sander......With heads ,the modern ally MLS gasket ohc heads need a very accurate machine ,whereas if you limit yourself to SB Chevs ,just about anything that makes a swirly pattern shiny surface is good enough.

  16. #12
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    Surfacing heads and blocks ....when I was working,a mechanic near me used to surface heads and blocks with a sanding disc in an angle grinder ....after I explained the theory to him.....he stepped up to a 1/2 sheet air sander......With heads ,the modern ally MLS gasket ohc heads need a very accurate machine ,whereas if you limit yourself to SB Chevs ,just about anything that makes a swirly pattern shiny surface is good enough.
    Right. All of my blocks are alluminum and use MLS gaskets.

    I've seen some heads like mine being done of older (read cheaper) machines like this. I don't know what kind of RA they put out and if they truly work or the guy was just BSing the work.

    I'm not sure what makes one machine capable of MLS gasket surfaces over another though. What am I looking for? Just a machine that is able to get an RA average tolerance of "X" or a machine that can true up to a certain ".00XX" thou...etc.

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    389
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Holicori View Post
    Walk me through that process. Is it something a regular guy like myself can do? Do they just simply press in and press out?

    How do you access them? I'd assume with a very small t style gauge and check for taper?

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk
    You should look for some books on engine rebuilding. Even if it's for vintage iron it'll still cover the basics like replacing guides, cutting seats, etc.

    The boring bar was pretty close to the last tool you should have bought. If you're trying to compete with someone who can bore 4 cylinders for $50 then you're a very, very long way from making enough money to buy coffee, gas, and lunch at McDonald's every day, let alone the many thousands of dollars more tools you need to use the ones you've already got.

  18. Likes alum100k liked this post
  19. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    2,591
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    10
    Likes (Received)
    805

    Default

    First ...buy cheap good quality whenever you see it.....and as to cylinder boring,a couple of friends of mine did little else as retirement income....There are all kinds of horror stories of big companies wrecking bike stuff,and once you are set up for bike stuff ,and have a good reputation,you will be refusing work....To do classic bike work ,you will need to make a boring table ....A friend of mine does this ,can bore to minus 001,then hone to size,and bore to near tenths for liners.Accurate machines ,used skillfully.

  20. Likes Holicori liked this post
  21. #15
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tom_boctou View Post
    You should look for some books on engine rebuilding. Even if it's for vintage iron it'll still cover the basics like replacing guides, cutting seats, etc.

    The boring bar was pretty close to the last tool you should have bought. If you're trying to compete with someone who can bore 4 cylinders for $50 then you're a very, very long way from making enough money to buy coffee, gas, and lunch at McDonald's every day, let alone the many thousands of dollars more tools you need to use the ones you've already got.
    I think you misunderstood. $45-50 per hole...just for boring. And it's generally 6, sometimes 8 holes for 1 block. That's $300-400 alone (and I paid $1000 for boring bar).


    Im a professional mechanic and run my own business. I get how engines work and how to measure them for rebuilds etc.

    What I don't know is the machinist side of things...and you're a fool to think they are the same, or close to the same. They may work side by side, but very different jobs.

    I understand the mechanic side, I don't understand all of the machinist side. I've done quite a bit of reading/learning about diff machines, procedures....but there's A LOT to learn and information isn't as readily available as other things. Which is one reason I'm here.

    I know valve guides are an important part. I've not looked into it much since some of what I've read said you needed a lot of high dollar equipment...to the point of being unrealistic for me to ever own.

    Doesn't hurt to ask questions. I promise I know a lot more than the average Joe blow that comes in thinking he's going to open up a machine shop for $20,000 and just start slamming engines together overnight.

    Compared to you nice folks here though...I don't know diddly.

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  22. #16
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    First ...buy cheap good quality whenever you see it.....and as to cylinder boring,a couple of friends of mine did little else as retirement income....There are all kinds of horror stories of big companies wrecking bike stuff,and once you are set up for bike stuff ,and have a good reputation,you will be refusing work....To do classic bike work ,you will need to make a boring table ....A friend of mine does this ,can bore to minus 001,then hone to size,and bore to near tenths for liners.Accurate machines ,used skillfully.
    That's the part I'm trying to learn. How do I become skillful?

    I haven't been able to find much other than 3 min YouTube tutorials on how to set up a machine. But nothing that goes in depth of where to measure, how to cut, etc etc.

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  23. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    marysville ohio
    Posts
    9,580
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2751
    Likes (Received)
    6387

    Default

    Google Goodson, they are an engine rebuilding supplier. All you can think of as far as valve guide reconditioning, seat cutting, cylinder honeing or anything else. You need to pay attention to the valve chuck on that valve refacer. It is a 3 ball chuck and they almost never run true and it probably will not grip the small valve stems on an outboard. I converted mine to ER collets, runs dead true now and will hold any small engine valve

  24. Likes greggv liked this post
  25. #18
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moonlight machine View Post
    Google Goodson, they are an engine rebuilding supplier. All you can think of as far as valve guide reconditioning, seat cutting, cylinder honeing or anything else. You need to pay attention to the valve chuck on that valve refacer. It is a 3 ball chuck and they almost never run true and it probably will not grip the small valve stems on an outboard. I converted mine to ER collets, runs dead true now and will hold any small engine valve
    That is something I've heard of. My outboard valves are very, very small at the stems.

    How did you go about swapping the check to the collet? How much did that cost roughly?

    Sent from my GM1917 using Tapatalk

  26. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
    Posts
    1,312
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1261
    Likes (Received)
    714

    Default

    For surfacing machines a couple names to keep an eye out for is Berco, nice machines but they tend to carry a premium price. I used to have a Winona Van Norman SM4000, they also made an SM2000 which might be closer to size you need, good Italian made machines, but WVN does not support them anymore. I tracked down original mfr 15 years ago, they said all maintenance and service documents were given to WVN, but WVN told me they had nothing, that said they are pretty basic machines and if you know how to fix stuff should not be a problem to keep one going. 2 other names squirreled away in the recesses of my brain are Scledum and Ruan.

  27. #20
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    36
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Storm Vulcan 85 Head Resurfacer | Jamison Equipment

    What are your thoughts on this? I know a lot of the old cast iron heads AND blocks get put through these guys. Would this type of machine be able to get an MLS finish on aluminum heads?


    While we're at it, what does determine if a resurface is worthy of MLS gaskets? I thought it all you needed with a lower RA finish. And isn't the RA determined by the speed at which the cutter spins? That's what I've gathered in my previous reading...so correct me if I'm wrong.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •