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Elgin 4x5 lathe

Bbk_Bbk

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 30, 2014
So I just purchased this lovely little guy. It’s on its way, but I have a question or two.

I had the seller provide me with videos of all the important stuff like spindle run out and tailstock alignment. Everything looks really good. But I’m hoping there’s a way to possibly tighten the preload in order to eliminate the 3/10” of a thousandth run out? Can anyone educate me on this a little? I’ll post videos and pictures to show its condition. I would love to hear any and everything you can share with me. You can see that the tailstock is high about .002-.003. Pictures are looking down and directly at the tailstock.
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Ok here’s a look at the spindle run out. You can see that the spindle spins quite free, so I feel like I could possibly tighten the pre load a hair to maybe eliminate some run out?? Hmmm, how do I post videos?

Here’s a look at the back pulley. The lathe was in beautiful shape, but the guy wanted to paint it anyway.
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Are you talking about runout or play? 0.0003" of play would be fantastic on a lathe like this, measured warmed up. If you have that cold, it might bind up at temp. If you are measuring 0.0003" of runout on the spindle collet taper for example, that is also excellent, but you could do a kiss grind on the taper if it's really bothering you.
 
Yes, with an indicator resting inside the spindle up against where the collet sits, it’s reading .0003 run out, and that’s on a cold spindle that hasn’t ran in 7 years. So after filing with oil and running for 20 minutes it may eliminate that all together. I’m not certain. But the machine is absolutely usable and capable of very accurate work. I have many machines, I just can’t stop buying beautiful old lathes. Those factory risers are something too!!


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Oh and what is a kiss grind? Do you mean just lightly regrind the end of the inner spindle where the collet rests? I recently did just that to my Habegger. It went from having .0015 to .0001 as there was a little damage from over tightening.


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That's what I mean. If all else is good it can work wonders, but it's not something to go at willy-nilly, you want everything else right first, that's the last step. But you've already done it- you know. I've done it to my Schaublin; I figure it was probably the first time it got that treatment, might do it again in 20 years.
 
Wow, *factory* riser blocks. Never seen those before.

1) your lathe probably takes collets right in the spindle, correct? 5C possibly.

2) high mileage lathes that take collets right in the spindle develop an interesting wear pattern. The collets have three splits in them and the interiors of the spindles "grow" three ridges where the collets don't bear on the spindle interior.

3) use you dial indicator to check very carefully how many high/low spots there are per revolution. Mark the spindle nose with a sharpie where all the high spots are. If three, then you will not fix that by snugging up the bearings.
 
Luckily there’s only one high spot. I have videos but can’t post them. I don’t believe this lathe was used much at all. It was mint before painting. The guy just wanted to paint it to cover the free paint chips. Occasionally the odd lathe just sat in grandpas shop for 80 years, I think this was one of them.

It takes 4c collets. Did I not post pictures? It comes with the original full set, original drill chuck and originally live Center and dead Center. All in fantastic condition. I wish I could have afforded to ship the bench with it. But it was another $600 shipping so I said keep it.

I need to find a3 jaw on a 4c collet mount. L.Venice??


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Does anyone know if I can use a hardinge new cross slide for a dv59 or similar 9” machine on this? I’ve been spoiled on my lorch for years with the giant ball bearings cross slide.


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For checking to see if your tailstock is on center, I would suggest securing a dial test indicator in your spindle and sweeping the tail stock bore. This will give a very accurate display of any possible misalignment. Using a tap and doing it visually is open to error.

Ted
 
Yes, I will sweep it once it gets here on the 10th. But looking at it, it’s definitely a couple thou high, which is great IMO. I used a brand new schaublin 102 and the tailstock was .0015 high. I was told it comes from the factory like this to plan for wear. I’m not sure how true that is, but it makes sense. My schaublin 102 tailstock is .0005 high. And it’s been used a good deal, but it’s in fantastic shape. It ran dry for a short time and has .0005 run out, I wonder if I can eliminate this? However I use my Habegger jh70 if I need zero run out!!


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Question... since the lathe has a 10” swing with the risers, could I get away with using a hardinge 9” ball bearings cross slide on it without the slide ? I’m not sure how easy it will be to find a 7” hardinge cross slide.


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The 9 inch ones are easier to find, the 7's are scarcer. For a machine like this you can put a riser under the toolpost if you want, so a
9" slide would be a good fit. Depending on the toolpost, you might not even use a riser block.

Here is a 7" lathe with a small aloris copy toolpost, with a riser under it, to use a schaublin 70 lathe slide. The slide and toolpost are
a tad on the small size for that machine but the combination works well overall. Note the height of the steel riser block under the toolpost.

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I have an Elgin very similar to yours. Mine came with the 3 jaw, can post pics if needed. There is a nice write up and pics of the gearing and different model changes on Tony’s website.
Joe


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Jim, that’s a real beauty!!! Is that your machine? That’s what I was also thinking, just cutting a larger tool post on it, or using a riser under the tool post.

Jdavi, I’d love to see a picture!! If you post with that 3 jaw let me know[emoji2]. Mine did come with a step collet that will handle up to 2 1/2” stock so that will be useful, assuming everything is accurate enough to turn between centres.


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Elgin Tool Works was created in 1904 in Elgin, IL, by Albert A. Hasselquist (1863-1939). They made small precision bench lathes oriented toward the local watch factory and similar users.

Around 1930, Franklin Hardinge sold his Hardinge Brothers "Cataract" brand lathe and mill operation to investors who moved the company to Elmira, NY and continued making Cataract brand lathes and mills and continued product development. The Elmira operation had an increased interest in collet making and introduced the practice of marking collets with designations that made clear what they fit. For instance, the original Hardinge Cataract No. 5 wire chuck was only marked Hardinge and you just had to know what it fit. The Elmira people marked them Hardinge 5C. Around 1935, Hardinge Brothers introduced ball bearing spindles and built-in electric motor drive.

After 1930, F. Hardinge continued his large furnace oil burner business, called Hardinge Manufacturing Co., still in the same plant where he had also made the Cataract lathes. Times were tough in 1930 and Hardinge apparently bought the Elgin Tool Works name. He probably employed his old lathe builders and designers and designed a new line of lathes and mills under the name Elgin Tool Works Division of Hardinge Manufacturing Co. The Chicago Elgin machines have a lot in common with Cataract designs, but are visually different. The Chicago Elgins were made into the 1950's.

So Elgin-made Elgins are completely different from Chicago Elgins. The name is confusing. There are a lot more Chicago Elgin machines still around than Elgin Elgin machines. To find an Elgin Elgin machine in great condition and with the three original riser blocks is amazing.

That bench is a circa 1945-55 watchmaker's bench and has nothing to do with the lathe. The bench is easily worth $200 cash and carry, but not worth a $600 freight bill.

Larry
 
Jdavi, that’s a beauty! If you ever part with that 3 jaw let me know [emoji16]. It seems we have a pretty rare lathe, I really can’t find much info of them at all.

Larry, thank you for sharing that information with us. So my lathe would have been produced sometime between 1904-1930? I’ve never seen a set of factory risers like this before. Not have I seen an over 100 year old machine still in this good of condition. It was bought from the original buyer i believe with all the accessories, being a collet lathe only leads me to think it was best less then the average machine. As much as I should preserve it, I’ll be using it everyday... with proper care of course.


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