Elgin Hardinge Lathe Restoration

Scott Sheridan · Jan 5, 2021

Hello folks,

I am new here just today and this is my vert first post, just to get the ball rolling.

I have acquired a Elgin Hardinge lathe that had been stored in my family's barn for many years. In my limited research thus far, it appears to be circa 1930. All the moving parts seem to be free and not seized, although heavily covered in old grease and grime. I plan to restore it and get it working in my home shop.

With that said, I am sure I will have lots of questions going forward (I already have a couple)and hope to obtain help from those of you in the know.

I will be posting photos and serial numbers next, assuming that is the best way to identify machine I have.

I am looking forward to this project and plan to post lots of photos and such as I progress.

Please feel free to direct me to another forum, if this is not the appropriate place.

Thanks in advance...

Scott.

Harold Mulder · Jan 5, 2021

As most people will say here. We like pictures. It will help identify what you have and how best to respond to your questions.
Look forward to seeing them.
Harold

jim rozen · Jan 6, 2021

Elgin and Hardinge were in principle two different companies, although many of the parts interchanged. So if you have a machine that has both
hardinge and elgin on the badges, it may be a bit of a frankenlathe. I ran a hardinge machine with an elgin headstock for a while - the plain bearing
hardinge spindle was worn out, and the elgin had ball bearing which could be replaced.

In short: you've arrived at the correct location.

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

Jim,

It is indeed badged Elgin/Hardinge. Serial Number CB5C-5691. I have a bunch more photos that I will endeavor to upload tonight after work.

L Vanice · Jan 6, 2021

Hardinge Brothers, Inc. is the well-known maker of "Cataract" brand lathes and mills that was located in Chicago from 1890 to about 1930. The company name and machine tool business was then sold and a new plant established in Elmira, NY. From 1920 on, the Hardinge brothers had a parallel business in Chicago making oil burner conversions for coal furnaces and that business was called Hardinge Manufacturing Co. Perhaps the new owners of Hardinge Brothers forgot to get a non-compete clause in the contract. I suspect that a lot of the Chicago lathe makers had no interest in moving to Elmira during the Depression and the Hardinge brothers had enough money to start a new lathe business. Whatever the circumstance, the Hardinge brothers bought an old lathe company, Elgin Tool Works, Elgin, IL around 1930 and used just the name to design a new line of lathes that were similar to, but noticeably different from, the Hardinge Brothers "Cataract" brand lathes and mills. The Elgin Tool Works operation was in the same building that was home to the oil burner and Cataract machine tool business. The Elgin machine tool business seems to have ended sometime after WWII.

As you can see, the nameplate graphics changed over the years.

Larry

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

LV,

In my research thus far, I could tell it was similar to, but different from, the older Cataract lathes. Is there serial number data available that would provide specific information pertaining to my lathe? I have yet to find anything.

By the way, I have the cross feed/compound/tool post pictured in your attachment, as well as the original electric motor and base that seems to run nicely (although I have not yet put it under any load).

I will post some additional photos tonight when I get home from work, just for everyone's reference, then the questions are gonna start coming... I already have several.

Thanks much for your this,

Scott

L Vanice · Jan 6, 2021

Scott Sheridan said:
LV,

In my research thus far, I could tell it was similar to, but different from, the older Cataract lathes. Is there serial number data available that would provide specific information pertaining to my lathe? I have yet to find anything.

By the way, I have the cross feed/compound/tool post pictured in your attachment, as well as the original electric motor and base that seems to run nicely (although I have not yet put it under any load).

I will post some additional photos tonight when I get home from work, just for everyone's reference, then the questions are gonna start coming... I already have several.

Thanks much for your this,

Scott

I have never seen an Elgin serial number/date list.

Here is a picture of the original bench.

Larry

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

Larry,

My motor and base appears to be the same. Although mine has a combination pulley arrangement similar to what is on the lathe itself. I'm not sure what the wider centre pulley is about. Possibly to attach a central line drive?

Thanks for the bench brochure. Good stuff! Sadly, when I rescued the lathe from the barn, there was no bench to be found. Do you know what era the pencil markings on the brochure are from? Obviously not from the 1930's.

Scott

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

Larry,

My motor and base appear to be the same. Although mine has a combination pulley similar to the ones on the lathe itself. Not sure what the wider center pulley is about. Possibly to run it off a central line drive?

Thanks for the brochure. Good stuff! Do you know what era the pencil marked pricing on it is from? Obviously not the 1930's.

Scott.

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

Additional pictures for reference. Any and all information is welcome!

Scott.

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

More photos

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

Scott Sheridan · Jan 6, 2021

jim rozen · Jan 7, 2021

Nice machine - not a frankenlathe, a genuine elgin of course. Headstock is the same as mine, more or less.

In my case the angular contact pair at the front of that spindle were plumb wore out, so worn that the spindle
had axial play. Bearings were fairly easy to replace. These are nice headstocks. Photos:

Scott Sheridan · Jan 7, 2021

Jim,

My bearings seem to be in very good condition. It has no axial play and I put a dial indicator on it last night and have about .0002" to .0003" run out. Quite pleased with that. I will be disassembling it all to clean it of whatever old oil is in it. What oil should I be using when I re-assemble?

Also, I am not familiar with the lever on the back of mine. It seems to simply engage/dis-engage the hand wheel to the spindle, or is there some other functionality to it?

Thanks for the pics.

Scott

jim rozen · Jan 7, 2021

The lever is your 5C collet closer. Collet fits in the front of the spindle (there is one in one of the photos of mine above) and then the knurled nut at the far left side of the spindle is used to draw the collet into the spindle so it is ready to grasp the workpiece. One you have the workpiece in the collet, you shift the lever on the closer to the left. When the adjustment on the knurled knob is correct, the lever will snap 'over-center' and the collet will grasp the work solidly. There's a small click pawl that can be engaged into the toothed wheel visible in one of your photos, to keep that setting so that parts can be changed out without the setting being disturbed. This is a much nicer setup than say, a handwheel closer.

I can't tell if you have oil cups on the back of your headstock. Hardinge kept changing the theory of how to lube their bearings. Sometimes oil, sometimes grease sealed in.

Put your dial gage on the front of the spindle, and then push/pull the backside of the spindle in and out, to see what the axial play is. Ideally, if the preload is present on the front bearing pair, it will exactly zero.

Scott Sheridan · Jan 7, 2021

Jim,

The collet system makes perfect sense now that you explain it. I suspect the original collets will be difficult to acquire, although I'd love to get them. Presumably a set of modern 5C collets will fit?

I do have oil cups on the back of the headstock, although they do not contain any wicks. Should they be wicked?

I put the dial indicator on the spindle again. Zero axial movement and more like .0001" to .0002" T.I.R.

Thanks for your insight.

Scott

Scott Sheridan · Jan 7, 2021

So a few other questions:

1) Tail Stock: The quill does not seem to have a taper. It has about a 5/16" diameter straight cylindrical bore. I'm not sure how it accepts a drill chuck or live center.

2) Drive Pulleys: The motor jack shaft pulleys have some type of paper like dressing applied to them. It is stepped to create a crown, so to speak, presumably to help track the leather belt straight. Should this be removed when I shine up the pulleys, or be left in place?

3) Cross slide. I can't get the feed screw to disassemble from the cross slide bed. It appears to be either held at the nose of the screw or at the base of the dial. Do I need to grind the peens to withdraw the screw, or is the base of the dial part of the bed?

jim rozen · Jan 7, 2021

5 9s probability that modern 5C collets will fit. 99.999

The oil cups don't get wicks. I believe the oil in them floods the bottom of the bearing and this provides clean lube to all the
rotating elements in the bearing. My oil of choice is synthetic mobile one engine oil - 0W20 weight.

The paper gasket under the bearing retention plates needs to be intact to seal this lube in or it will weep out the bottom.

Elgin Hardinge Lathe Restoration

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