First post, help IDing lathe

Hello guys,

I've been lurking around for a while since. I've always been fascinated about making things. Electronics, eventually picked up a 3D printer (which turns out is not all that appropriate to make a lot of things), and finally decided to pull the trigger and get a lathe.

I was going to get a mini lathe, since 99% of the stuff I'd make would be simple and small, but then I found this little piglet on craigslist for $200.

It has markings that I could find, not plates on it of any sort, not even gear ratios, etc. The only id plate on the entire setup is on the motor (which from the sticky on this forum won't help with the id).

The previous owner picked it up used and all he could tell me about the lathe is that it was likely a South Bend, he had it for 20 years and he used to use it to turn pool cue sticks (he used to own a pool hall).

It came with a few cutting tools, 3 or 4 wrenches, a chuck and a round plate, threaded in the center but no markings or wholes in it at all.

I was hoping one of you guys could help me ID the lathe. I took pictures of it as described in the sticky post.

Thank you in advance, and cheers!

EDITED: It seems there is a maximum of 5 pics per thread so I added the links to all the pics instead. These are high resolution images, so it is possible to zoom in on to see the apron and top of carriage up close.

ID pics of the lathe

It’s not a South Bend,but one of the many lathes that we’re clones of it. For 200 you can’t go wrong. You should be able to make electronics hardware easily. Fit it for collets and you’l be set.

k3vyl said:

It’s not a South Bend,but one of the many lathes that we’re clones of it. For 200 you can’t go wrong. You should be able to make electronics hardware easily. Fit it for collets and you’l be set.

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Being a clone, could I (find and) use a manual for one of the SB lathes for it? If it were possible to id the SB this was a clone of then I could find out how to change gears for threading and the like.

Cheers!

TwistedTransisto said:

Being a clone, could I (find and) use a manual for one of the SB lathes for it? If it were possible to id the SB this was a clone of then I could find out how to change gears for threading and the like.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

No SB manuals, just the HTRAL - links for a not so old version

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf

that is not a SB clone.

Definitely not a South Bend "clone". Just a metal lathe of similar size. It bears some general resemblance to machines made by the Shepherd Lathe Co. of Cincinnati.

How to Run a Lathe is still valuable reading.

Andy

TwistedTransisto said:

Being a clone, could I (find and) use a manual for one of the SB lathes for it? If it were possible to id the SB this was a clone of then I could find out how to change gears for threading and the like.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

Oh my. You ARE in for a ride, aren't you?

No actually it is not that bad. ANY lathe can be figured out by the rational mind. Just don't get daunted.

Don't necessarily expect to find a book specifically for your clone-lathe. Since the beginnings of the industrial revolution and probably up until the late 20th century, if one made a lathe for market, one sort of assumed that one's market would be able to handle the personal learning curve to making it work.

All metalworking lathes of the common variety are similar. There are some variants among the toolmaker lathes (The Hjorth, the Elgins, Rivetts, other brands of "precision" tools) but most bench, engine type lathes are the same overall plan pioneered in 1853 when Thayer, Houghton & Co. came out with a back-geared, lead-screw, feed-rod traverse driven type lathe which superseded all the olderchain drive lathes and within a very short time, captured the lathe market - and all the manufacturers copied.

The South Bend produced book "How to Run A Lathe" is online in one of its many variants - most are identical if not VERY close, and all discuss a lathe design which anyone in 1853 could have read about in the later book and understood how to make it work. You can start with "How to Run a Lathe" (if you must.) See http://www.campkahler.com/files/how_to_run_a_lathe_sb_1of2.pdf for online (there are other sites) or buy a CHEAP one as they're all pretty much the same and were found in the same box a South Bend Lathe was delivered in.

Another book which is more my style is "Advanced Machine Work" by RH Smith. Printed over a generation between the 1890s and 1920s, it was a staple of American Technical Arts training for the first half of the 20th century. Can be found online at http://www.campkahler.com/files/how_to_run_a_lathe_sb_1of2.pdf, bought new reprint on Amazon, or found used for less than $20 delivered from Abebooks.com. This book for certain will teach you about the gear combinations in order to use that lead screw to cut screw-threads.

More advanced and to me WAY more interesting as it goes into the different applications of lathes (railroad car wheel lathes all the way down to watchmaker's lathe) is "Modern Machine Shop Practice" by Joshua Rose. Found online at Modern Machine-Shop Practice, Volumes I and II by Joshua Rose - Free Ebook. Also seen reprint at Amazon, and can be bought for relatively small money from Abebooks.com Leather bound in two volumes it can be bought up to $400. Most are less than $200. Can be found in a degraded but read-able single volume for $25 on Ebay. Reprints are reasonable and long lived (one doesn't worry about ruining an antique.)

So yes, more than likely your clone lathe never had a "real" instruction book - but you can observe, compare, and generally "self educate" at the knee of the masters speaking to you by the written word from up to a century ago.

And (ahem) we have a wealth of knowledge here on this board. Possibly someone who can put a real name to your lathe. One of our side occupations is playing the game "Name that lathe" and based on pictures trying to find with the aid of the Internet historical identification. Sometimes the search can be lengthy.

Joe in NH

Fair enough (about trying to find a manual for that exact lathe).

I understand how a lathe runs, how to run it, what can be done with it, and the basic things. I've been watching tons of videos on youtube and reading.

My main point about a manual of some sort is to figure out what gears i have in there (i can count the teeth in the ones I have installed) and what other gears are available out there so different threads can be cut using that lathe.

The other thing I wondering about when inspecting the lathe yesterday was the set of gears in the back (if you look at the head stock from above). If my observations are correct, those are for setting different speed settings (other than the 3 available with the belt pulleys), but when I engaged them, things get locked up and the lathe does not turn (I did by hand). So there is some sort of mechanism somewhere in there to lock/unlock something that allows those to be used. A set screw somewhere maybe.

I also figure out the lever for putting the lathe in reverse.

There is one lever in the apron (the one in the pic without a know on it), which I think engages the cross slide for powered operations, but was not sure.

It also needs 2 belts. The previous owner said the one missing broke and he could not find it to measure it after he moved to his new home. The belt you see in the pics is worn out and will definitely break very soon, if not immediately, after trying to use the lathe. So a manual, or a measurement/math formula of sorts, to find out the sizes of the belts I'll need to buy is pretty much essential.

So the two belts are the only thing keeping me from start to play and learn with it. And the gears/gearing arrangements keeps me from making different screws. Also, if this lathe can be geared to cut metric threads (no big deal if it can't, I don't actually have a need to cut in a system versus another).

Edit: I guess I can use a string/rope to figure out the belt sizes

TwistedTransisto said:

The other thing I wondering about when inspecting the lathe yesterday was the set of gears in the back (if you look at the head stock from above). If my observations are correct, those are for setting different speed settings (other than the 3 available with the belt pulleys), but when I engaged them, things get locked up and the lathe does not turn (I did by hand). So there is some sort of mechanism somewhere in there to lock/unlock something that allows those to be used. A set screw somewhere maybe

Click to expand...

On the bull gear face looking from the bed side of the headstock there should be a lever, knob or possibly a screw that disengages the bull gear from the pulley. Disengage the pulley from the bull gear AND shift the back gears.

mach2 said:

On the bull gear face looking from the bed side of the headstock there should be a lever, knob or possibly a screw that disengages the bull gear from the pulley. Disengage the pulley from the bull gear AND shift the back gears.

Click to expand...

Like the old Hendey in the thumbnail - you pull the pin the unlock the BULL or FACE gear from the cone pulley

I found the gear train explanation and changing gears section in the PDFs provided in the 2 links above. I'll read through that tonight, it will probably have the information I need there.

I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to look at the bull gear mechanism. The lathe is still strapped down on my truck and there is not enough light out there to look into it right now.

Thank you everybody!

Cheers!

what makers used an outer v way and inner flat arrangement?

There is some frankenlathe going on, it has an @tl@$ compound.

I have seen something similar but just can't place it.

I can’t Identify the lathe either but it looks like the lathe has had some riser blocks put under the Headstock and tailstock to give it another inch or maybe two more swing .
I have a feeling that they are not factory riser blocks but can’t be certain.
As mentioned above the compound slide looks Atlas like but seems a bit higher than most I have seen so it may have had some added to raise it up as well but I can’t tell from the pictures.
Jim

One oddity is picture 6. It appears that the tailstock is running on two flats rather than a flat and a "V".

Tom

As mentioned above the compound slide looks Atlas

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The way the lead screw is mounted gives me an atlas vibe too.

Looks to me like the back gears are engaged too which might prevent the the spindle from moving.

Not atlas, it only has the compound from a 12" atlas, presumably to make up for the risers

Aha!
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/29/16786.pdf

presumably it is the model 47D with the power feed upgrade....note that option cost nearly as much as the machine itself.

Can't find a pic of one with the power feed option, just the mention it was available.

I would say this machine is worth removing the risers and putting back to original.

some pics of the apron workings would be cool too...guessing the upgrade gives it power cross feed with the long feed still utilizing the half-nuts??

Ps- if you count the teeth of the largest gear and give us the outside diameter we can indentify what pitch gears you need....

That tailstock setup is just crazy..........guess they relied on the inside of the ways to hold the tailstock in alignment?
Yeah, ditch the risers, you have enough to contend with.

Also it seems the company is still in business( AMT in Royersford,PA) with Gorman-Rupp being the parent company, might be worth a call...long shot but you never know.

iwananew10K said:

Also it seems the company is still in business( AMT in Royersford,PA) with Gorman-Rupp being the parent company, might be worth a call...long shot but you never know.

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That is an awesome find, I'll definitely be giving them a call!

Thanks!