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G&E Shaper age by serial number?

Patrick H

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Midland, MI
I am going tomorrow to look at a G&E 14 inch shaper. It is still in place in a working machine shop and functional. The only other detail I have is that the serial number is 1572a10. Can anyone date the machine by the serial number? I am guessing around 1935 based off internet searching, but trust the guys here way more than the internet. Looks like from previous posts it should weigh about 3200# and at current local scrap price that puts it at $280. My research shows that at one point Mitts and Merrill owned and/or built G&E shapers. They were based out of Saginaw, MI, which is right next door to Midland. Kind of cool.

Thanks,
Patrick
 
Well, my G&E shaper dates to the late 1920's, or early 1930's
We discussed this some time back on this forum
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/g-e-shaper-205543/

The SN is a lot smaller than yours, 667A8, but of similar format.

My G&E was made in NJ, not MI.
At some point Mitts and Merrill bought G&E, but long after my machine left the factory.

Condition and features are more important than age when assessing a shaper.
Hold out for one with a vise that fits correctly. The G&E vise has a tapered hex and mating wrench/handle, so get that as well.
Automatic lubrication system - mine has one, but smaller G&E's of similar vintage are seen without them. Unless you plan to run the machine with an oil can in both hands, get one with an oiler.

Power down feeds are nice, but not that common
Universal table - versatile, but they have to be set and reset. Some love them, some hate them. I would sacrifice the rigidity for the versatility on my machine.

Condition - Almost all shapers are old and used hard.
Inspect the head carefully for signs of repairs. They can be crashed into the column and break out in the dove tails.
Open the side cover and see how much play the crank arm and slider have. Verify they are not brazed up.
Verify the power feeds work in both directions.

Run it with the bull gear in high and back gear. Listen for periodic ticks indicating damaged teeth.
You can also roll it over by hand and see if you feel anything.

Parts - assume they are unobtainable and plan to make your own.

Your in the ball park on price and weight. Scrap value or slightly less is a good opening point, but you may have to move up to buy a good machine.

Dating the machine -
Patent numbers on the machines data plate will give you a "no older than" point of reference. Just pull up the US patent office web page and put them in.

I have noticed a few other shaper features that seem to date them.
No clutch lever - OLD over head flat belt design or new hydraulic shaper.
No oil pump - earlier design than mine
Open power feed linkage - early design, like mine.
Enclosed shaft type power feed system - later design than my machine.
Motor integral to machine, not hinged on back - newer design than mine.
Base casting does not extent past front of knee/ support foot inside knee - earlier shaper designs.
 
I read 1572a10 as made in 1937, 4461A8 as 1946, and 6425A8 as 1953. That is assuming the production numbers are the last number per year which is typical.
 
Well, I bought it today. Paid $250. Everything works and is nice and quiet. Includes all the crank handles, the vice, and a tilting base for the vise - something I had not seen before but I'm not a machinist. I knew in advance that it had came from the local high school from back when they had a machine course. Next I will have to get it home, but first I have to clean the shop, move the 12x54 Hendey lathe and 10x54 Supermax mill around so I will have room for the shaper. Don't really know what I will use it for but I am just facsinated by shapers for some reason. Oh, I even got the original operators instructions for it, in very good shape. Thanks for the advice everyone!

Pics:
 

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Congratulations Patrick on a super looking shaper at a great price. Now you can spend time like some of the rest of us, dreaming up projects and ways to machine projects on the shaper, rather than on the mill or some other more modern way. 'Tilting vise base' is one face of the universal table, which your machine has- hence universal in the name.
 
Interesting

Three out of 4 serial numbers end in A8.
Is that significant?

All the G&E serial numbers up till 1960 end in "A", I don't know what numeral suffix means. The 1960 and later serials were prefixed as "G&E" then the number. I'm not even close to being a G&E expert just interpreting the numbers.

My 16" G&E serial number is 43A7 the last patent date is May 21, 1918. So does that make my shaper made in 1923? Very interesting post.

Thanks

Dave

Serial 43A7 would make it the tail end of 1922. Serial 46A was the last shaper in 1922.
 
Here we have another Plain Universal - which I suppose means no front support. My nearly identical 16" Toolroom Universal did not have the word plain on the side and did have a front support
 
Here we have another Plain Universal - which I suppose means no front support. My nearly identical 16" Toolroom Universal did not have the word plain on the side and did have a front support

I was wondering what the "Plain Universal" meant. I see on mine that the base casting doesn't even come out far enough to put a front support on it. Maybe they figured it was so "small" that it wasn't needed. Next question, what is the difference between the toolroom model and the industrial model? The manual makes mention of both, but offers no distiction.

I think I am just going to hire a rollback to move this one!
 
I was wondering what the "Plain Universal" meant. I see on mine that the base casting doesn't even come out far enough to put a front support on it. Maybe they figured it was so "small" that it wasn't needed. Next question, what is the difference between the toolroom model and the industrial model? The manual makes mention of both, but offers no distiction.

I think I am just going to hire a rollback to move this one!

Nice score on the shaper Patrick. For G&E "Plain" does in fact refer to the lack of front support. They made Plain "toolroom" shapers, and also some Plain "Industrial" shapers.
One of the differences between toolroom and industrial is feed range. They both had 18 feeds, but the toolroom was .005" to .090" and the industrial was .010" to .180"
Another difference is weight, 16" plain toolroom universal #3200 and 16" plain industrial universal #4200, these specs from 1937 catatog
FYI the 14" plain toolroom universal is also listed at #3200

ME
 
Looks like you paid for a vise and they threw in a shaper.

Nice machine for the shop.
It should have a fair amount of capability in a small foot print.

High school history is a plus, it usually means light use, but the operators may have been rookies and damaged things.
Look it over carefully for shop made or repaired parts.

The age makes the electrical system questionable.
Check the wire insulation, on machines this old is common for that to be falling apart.
You may also find that the motor starter has to be replaced if its not set up for you shops voltage.
The switch does look newer, so you may be in good shape.

Enjoy
 
I actually knew the man who ran the high school shop program where this machine came from. He predated this machine by well more than a decade and was a true old school machinist who was beyond meticulous in the care of the machines. I also know half a dozen people who ran it in the class. In fact the founder of the shop I got it from was one of his students and bought all of the school's machines to open the shop. Told me he got sent to the principal's office for riding the ram like a horse! I am only 36, but to me learning the history of old iron (cars, tools, whatever) is half of the fun of owning it.

The shaper is 3 phase so I will have to run it off the rotary phase converter for the mill. Will carefully examine the wiring at that time.

I am getting eager to get it home, but have a lot of work to do in the shop first to get ready.
 
I got impatient and broght the shaper home today. Got to the machine shop about 8:30am and by 11:30am I had it unloaded at home and moved to a temparary spot in the back of my shop. Everything went very well. We loaded it with an old, small fork truck rated at 4000 pounds. Centered it over the axles of the trailer and drove slow home. At home I only had a 1 ton chain fall (American made) and a very large and heavy 2 ton rated Walker floor crane. The jack on the crane doesn't work so I made a steel spacer to hold the ram at the right height. Raised the shaper with the chain falls hanging from the crane and drove the trailer out from underneth. Not the way I would recommend to someone else, but it was the only way I had. Once on pipes on the floor I just rolled it to the back. Now I have to clean it up and move the lathe and mill around to put it in place and hook up the power.
 

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Well you have the RPC, so 3 phase is covered.
Check the coil voltage on the motor starter and the wire connections on the motor.
If they are both set for 220V, disengage the clutch and see if runs.

Shapers are one of the few machines that can make blue chips with tool steel and get away with it.
They can also make chips that clunk when they hit the floor.
When big hot chips fall on flammable stuff, bad things can happen.
Paper starts to smolder well below the temperature at which steel shows any red glow.
Consider what is in the path of the chips when you position the machine.

I agree it is fun to know the history of your machines, and it is nice to pass it on as well.
Some are less interesting than others.
I have a 1940 Delta Unisaw with tags on it indicating the first owner was Boeing Aircraft.
I also have a wood lathe that came from a local school system. They got it from the state pen.
 
Bumping an old thread. I just picked up a 16" G&E industrial shaper and was trying to find out the year of manufacture. Thanks to "gibbs5353" for the info. Looks like mine is a late 1941.
 








 
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