Get paint to stick, Hendey lathe 24406

Bravotroop · Jan 27, 2020

Hello everyone. I just joined Practical Machinist. I'm Head Machinist for a classic-car restoration shop. I have got our Hendey 12x5 lathe #24406 working nicely. I would appreciate very much any info on its history. Boss said "paint it like original." I'm no painter, but the body/paint guys are so busy that I have to paint the machine. Took the headstock and tailstock down to bare cast iron. Priming and finish-coating were successful. Took the base and legs down to a layer of softish black stuff, like some kind of glazing, but I did not do the tedious removal of it, or the white Bondo-ish filler I found in some of the casting voids. Primer didn't stick. How did Hendey originally prime over this black stuff? Thanks. If I'm repeating an old question, I apologize.

M.B. Naegle · Jan 27, 2020

The black stuff is the original Japanned finish. Any paint on top of it was added later. I'd venture to guess though that the Japanning isn't so much of an issue as the pieces being saturated with old oil. I prefer using lacquer thinner to clean parts for paint, but it might take quite a bit of cleaning to at least get the surface clean enough for new paint to stick. If you had the parts totally disassembled you could also use a torch to bake the oil out.

RCPDesigns · Jan 27, 2020

To add to M.B Naegle's post, I used Zep Industrial Purple Degreaser on my 100+ year old Hendey to deal with the oil. Primer didn't stick without it but did fine after. It makes a mess and will eat you alive... but I think that's why it works. It will remove the oil and *everything* else. Paint, Bondo, Japanning, skin, eyes, etc. It needs to soak some to really loosen things up, then a good brushing with a wire brush and wash off. The usual paint prep steps after that, wax and grease remover, tack rag, etc, etc.

mach2 · Jan 27, 2020

Naegle is right about the oil. Cast iron is porous and even if you wash the surface with detergent oil will migrate to the surface. If you use detergents be sure to thourly rinse with water( like hose it off ). Paint won’t stick to soap any better than oil.

I have a milling machine that had the same japenning. Regular solvent and detergents would not touch it. I relectantly washed it with gasoline then with thinners and mineral spirits.

For smaller cast iron and ferrous metal parts after removing the paint soak them in a mix of brown vinegar and salt, one gallon vinegar to 1/2 cup salt for about 4 hours. This will loosen rust and leach out oil. Remove from the vinegar mix and scrub with an abrasive pad then flush with water. Dry thourly ad prime paint immediately with a self etching primer. The vinegar and salt solution is a mild acid and does a good job on the oil and rust.

For the larger cast iron parts wash down bare cast iron with mineral spirits and prime immediately with self etching primer. Here you are looking to remove as much oil from the cast iron pourous surface long enough for the primer to attach to bare clean surface iron.

Preping oily cast iron is most labor intensive. That’s why the car painting guys don’t want the job.

john.k · Jan 27, 2020

The white chalky filler was generally applied with a broad springy paint scraper type tool...Take a look at the Colchester Lathe video on Utube.......Japanning was also a name for "stove enamelling" or "stoving" as it was known ....a shiny black finish on classic motorbikes ,and bicycles........ill also say .....never use 2 pack over a smooth cast iron....it will just come off like a plastic jacket....if you must use 2 pack ,the surface must have a "key" ,generally from grit blasting.

Bravotroop · Jan 27, 2020

Thanks, all! I should have some Zep degreaser tomorrow. Meantime I applied heat with a plumber's torch...bubbled then vaporized the oil quickly and easily. Boss says to remove the japanning. If Zep doesn't do it, I'm to take the base, legs, and bed outside to sandblast. I had already removed apron, saddle, leadscrew, reversing shaft, motormount, and headstock/gearing etc. from the bed during the rebuild, so its no strain. How old is this lathe? It does NOT have a quick-change gearbox, but it does have a compound rest.

Jeff_G · Jan 28, 2020

The "black stuff" M B Nagle refers to is probably the original filler, an asphalt-like material. We had a thread (now lost) on this several years ago. Paint was typically pigment mixed in linseed oil with various other nasty ingredients like lead.

You may have noticed the peeling, flaking paint all over an old machine. I think that's a characteristic of linseed oil-based paint.

john.k · Jan 28, 2020

The best example of the deep lustre black that you are likely to see is an old Singer sewing machine.

99Panhard · Jan 28, 2020

Jeff G is spot on. The "black stuff" you refer to is almost certainly the original filler - used to smooth the casting before painting. We had a long discussion on that several years ago, including some members that were able to find original formulas. If you remove it all, and want the surface to look as it did, you'll have to replace it. Bondo might work. I've never bot6hered but I don't much care if the machines look exactly as they did. I did not make any serious attempt to remove it before painting my #2 B&S mill.

Bravotroop · Jan 29, 2020

Thanks again, all. I'm ready to prime IF IF IF paint will stick to the japanning that's left, after a dozen coats of paint remover and five coats of Zep Industrial Purple degreaser. Rinsed and wirebrushed between coats. You can't feel the japanning, it's too thin, but it's there. If ALL the japanning needs to go, I'll spend the day with Zep, wirebrush, and high-pressure washer. Thanks again.

RCPDesigns · Jan 29, 2020

Bravotroop said:
View attachment 276923
Thanks again, all. I'm ready to prime IF IF IF paint will stick to the japanning that's left, after a dozen coats of paint remover and five coats of Zep Industrial Purple degreaser. Rinsed and wirebrushed between coats. You can't feel the japanning, it's too thin, but it's there. If ALL the japanning needs to go, I'll spend the day with Zep, wirebrush, and high-pressure washer. Thanks again.

I believe what you're down to now is the filler they used to smooth the castings as described in previous posts above. You should do a quick test as I believe it will stick that that now that you've gotten the other stuff off. I had the same stuff on my Hendey and while most of it came off with the Zep, I left a good bit on as well. I had no problem with the paint sticking and a few years later it is still fine.

Bravotroop · Jan 29, 2020

Thanks, RCPDesigns! About to powerwash, then degrease. I'll prime a small test patch on the inside and report.

Doozer · Jan 30, 2020

Jeff_G said:
...
You may have noticed the peeling, flaking paint all over an old machine. I think that's a characteristic of linseed oil-based paint.

View attachment 276765

It is not a characteristic specifically of oil based paint. That is a leading statement.
It is a characteristic of paint applied over a poor surface preparation.
ANY paint is going to peel with poor prep.

-Doozer

Tony Quiring · Jan 30, 2020

Oven cleaner is another trick.

Sam's club was a 3 pack of grille cleaner that is pump spray for about 10 bucks so a good buy.

Spray on and let it work and rinse repeat.

Removes everything then either Bondo for large pits or the paint glaze for smaller ones or as we did just lots of coats if minimally thinned paint sprayed.

Best bet there is work with your paint guys to get some fillers and prep tips then maybe have them shoot it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Bravotroop · Feb 5, 2020

Thanks again, all. Too late to try the oven-cleaner...Daly's triple-strength Paint and Varnish Remover ate through the japanning like gangbusters. Daly's burns really badly right through 9mil nitrile gloves! Did final pressure-wash yesterday...nothing but bare gray cast iron left. Gonna tape the ways and other precision surfaces, then hand this job off to the painters to degrease and shoot the primer.

Frank R · Feb 5, 2020

Bravotroop said:
Daly's triple-strength Paint and Varnish Remover

Never heard of it; can't find it on Daly's website. Was it old stuff?

Bravotroop · Feb 5, 2020

Probably is an old product.

Froneck · Feb 5, 2020

I don't seem to have a problem painting my Hendeys. I give the location a quick wash with Gasoline then with Acetone with a paint brush. When dry I use Rust-Oleum or Krylon satin spray paint I get from Wall-Mart. I have yet to have any peel off. If you intend to use a lot of paint but it all at one time. I completely worked over a P&W late model lathe. Used all the same color but didn't buy it all at the same time, purchased a case of 12 cans I think. Build took a while so I painted pieces and let them dry as I continued to work on the lathe. After it was all assembled I noticed a slight shade difference but it wasn't very much. Having to remove the Tailstock on my L&S because I needed to work on a long shaft using the steady rest and being the tailstock was quite heavy I disassembled it. When I put it back on I cleaned each part as mentioned and painted it Granite Gray, hand wheel spokes and nut wrench blue satin. 3 yeas ago and it still is in like painted condition, no peeling! However none of the lathes look to have been painted with paint that was peeling. I'm cleaning up a Portage HBM in excellent shape but painted with some type of very thick paint. A simple plastic scraper easily removes the paint that comes off in large pieces. Clean it the same way and spray paint it.

Dr. Hillbilly · Feb 6, 2020

Was the black Japanning always the original color for old Hendeys?
My Universal No. 2B is battleship gray, but it appears to be repainted over black, and the electric conversion of the line-shaft cone-drive is the same grey so I guess the entire machine was repainted with the conversion. If black is original I will repaint it black, as I am not fond of the battleship gray anyway!

johnoder · Feb 6, 2020

Over the years that I have found "black" or dark grey/gray - never a finish, always a FILLER to smooth up casting defects - likely made in house using such as carbon black (or coke dust) and shellac

Get paint to stick, Hendey lathe 24406

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