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  1. #1
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    Default Government/Military Machine Ownership Tags

    I picked up a Peerless hacksaw with a “Property of USAF” tag, and it got me thinking. How many different tags are there? I know a lot of machines will have a Navy anchor on them. I can’t recall seeing an Army tag. Surely there must be some. I’m not talking about War Production Board plates, I mean ownership plates or tags. Also can anyone give any other examples of a machine being altered from factory spec to a special order for a government machine.

    For example, the Peerless had a standard feed pressure between 60 and 240 lbs.
    The Government machines, including mine, range from 80 to 375 lbs.

    The standard motor is 1 hp. Government is 1 ½ hp.
    Government motor to have a starter and a push button on/off switch.
    Standard gears are cast iron. Government's are steel.
    I think my saw is from the 1950’s.

    Thanks to VintageMachinery.org site for the Peerless Speedy Cut Care and Operation publication. I really need to donate to them.

    So let’s see some other tags.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_4379.jpg   img_4366.jpg   img_4367.jpg   img_4376.jpg   img_43761.jpg  


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    Seems reasonable since there was no USAF until 1947

    Up until then it was Army Air Corps

    I think my saw is from the 1950’s.

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    Ive got lots of WW2 tools and gauges stamped Property of US Army air force,most just useless nicknacks for radial engines......dont think anyone would bother stealing them...yet the standard tools are not marked.

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    My Thompson grinder has War Production tag, and a tag on motor indicating Property Of USAF, Douglas Aircraft. War Production Board was ended in 1945, but USAF was not created till 1947, so not sure if Douglas Acft was first home, or second.

    My Standard Modern lathe has a rather bland US Army tag with NSN and some other info, every flippin piece of tooling for it has Property of US Army scrawled into it with a cheap engraver. As for unique features, its the 26" x 30", 4000 Lb "bench" lathe LOL.

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    It wouldn't surprise me if my saw came from Loring Air Force Base in northern Maine, one of the Strategic Air Commands largest bases.
    I'd like to see pictures of some US Army tags and what machines they were on.

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    Last pic shows your hacksaw was made in 1958

    6-3-58

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    US navy did stamp some machines:


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    Thanks Tim, I was wondering if that was the date made.

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    Here are a few pics of a little Hardinge BB4 with a defense dept. tag. Also the Los Alamos tag from where it apparently served in WW2. It is due for an overhaul but very complete including original drive. Doesn't seem to glow in the dark. Ed.



    img_2424.jpgimg_2426.jpgimg_2427.jpgimg_2429.jpg

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    I've got a late model G&E/Norton shaper that has the USN R+D dept brand on it.

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    My old Becker was an Ordinance Dept. of the U.S.A. machine sometime before WWII ,and only had a brass tag and stencils on it.
    p7070005.jpg

    002.jpg

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    kimg0813.jpg

    On my 1959 Rivett lathe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynah View Post
    [SIZE=4][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I picked up a Peerless hacksaw with a “Property of USAF” tag, and it got me thinking. How many different tags are there?

    -My '48 DoAll bandsaw has a nearly identical diamond-shaped(tilted square) tag.

    Doc.

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    My Landis Type C grinder is stamped with both the Flaming Bomb mark and the Crossed Cannons mark....the stamping is on the makers plate.

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    Rockcrusher, your mill from Los Alamos is pretty historic. It's nice to have a specific location like that.

    Does anyone know if the eagle and stars inspectors stamp on my saw is an Air Force stamp only? The Navy has the anchor and Army has the flaming bomb and crossed canons? Those Army marks are on firearms and I would have said they were the Ordanance Dept.

    I have a Hendey T&G from 1952 that was part of an order of 9 T&Gs from the Arms Corporation, what ever that was, (thanks Hendeyman), but there are no tags on it.

    At an estate sale many years ago I sifted through a pile of flotsam and jetsam and found these two pints of G.I.lard cutting oil, dated 1959, never opened.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails peerlees-gov.-mark1.jpg   img_4437.jpg   img_4438.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by maynah View Post

    Does anyone know if the eagle and stars inspectors stamp on my saw is an Air Force stamp only? The Navy has the anchor and Army has the flaming bomb and crossed canons? Those Army marks are on firearms and I would have said they were the Ordanance Dept.

    Maynah -

    I'll tell you what I think is correct - hopefully someone more knowledgeable will correct me if I am wrong. I spent my civilian working career in a defense contractor but thankfully did not have to deal with the acceptance paperwork and stamp process.

    The 'eagle' stamp in your picture is used by DCMA (Defense Contract Management Agency) when needed under the DFARS (Defense Federal Acquisition Regulations Supplement) which is how DOD implements the FAR (Federal Acquisition Regulation). You tired of this yet? One use is for the stamp and signatures to go on a DD Form 250, which is when the government takes ownership accepting whatever it is you are selling. Then you get paid. I only had to worry about getting the $30M piece of gear built - someone else went crazy getting the paperwork done so we could get paid as a company.

    This issue has come up before but I do not recall anyone ever really knowing the history of the stamps. DCMA only came into existence after DOD was created by the Defense Act of 1947. Prior to that as you noted the Army and Navy ran their own acceptance operation. Navy acceptance was denoted by the stamped anchor. I'm guessing that both the 'bomb' and 'crossed cannon' stamps were used by the Ordnance Corps, who prior to and during WW2 were in charge of accepting a lot of material. They were responsible for most that was technical in nature - which would have included things like machine tools and weapons. My basic branch when I went in the Army 50 years ago was Ordnance. I'm guessing the cannon stamp was used by the arsenal (weapons) side for acceptance stamping while the 'bomb' (which we called the flaming pi** pot) was used for things like machine tools, etc. I've just never read anything historically about what stamping was used when and why. At times I'm thinking a US stamp was used as well - if acceptance was being done for multiple services. My Heavy 10 lathe was delivered in early January of 1945 and has a US stamp, not a bomb, although it was delivered to the Army. I have read somewhere that some joint acceptance was done for common usage items later in WW2, but cannot remember where I saw that. I'm attaching the Army Ordnance Corps Regimental Crest - you will see where the cannons and bomb come from.

    To further confuse the issue I have no idea what the Army Air Corps/Force used for acceptance in WW2. They were part of the Army until the Defense Act of 1947, which also created them as a separate service (along with a whole raft of other changes in organization).

    As I said, a lot of the above is an educated guess on my part. It would be interesting if someone who really knew could shed some light on the process.

    Dale

    ordnance_corps_regimental_crest.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock Crusher View Post
    Here are a few pics of a little Hardinge BB4 with a defense dept. tag. Also the Los Alamos tag from where it apparently served in WW2. It is due for an overhaul but very complete including original drive. Doesn't seem to glow in the dark. Ed.



    img_2424.jpgimg_2426.jpgimg_2427.jpgimg_2429.jpg
    Mill Ser. No. 47-16264 was built at the end of 1941, probably after Pearl Harbor. The 47 means the head is 7" swing and it takes 4C collets.

    Larry

    hardinge-ser-no.jpg

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    We had a #5 Cinnci horizontal USAF mill.It had the same travels and table size as a #6 which from what I can tell is the only difference between the two(50hp & 108" table,60"travel).
    But was clearly a #5 serial no.Maybe th AF ordered #6's and Cinci converted the #5s to fill the order.The place I bought it from had another identical one.

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    I was very surprised to see a Duolathe (shipping weight 12 pounds, according to the OEM specs, circa 1949) being sold as surplus from Badger Ordnance Works in Wisconsin. It had been used for something, and still had a bunch of 8mm watch lathe collets with it. These things get fancy prices on eBay because of the cute factor, but I do not consider them fit to use. I am spoiled by having Levin and Derbyshire watch lathes at hand.

    Badger Army Ammunition Plant - Wikipedia

    Larry

    duolathe-6.jpg duolathe-1.jpg duolathe-2.jpg duolathe-brochure-1.jpg duolathe-brochure-5.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    Mill Ser. No. 47-16264 was built at the end of 1941, probably after Pearl Harbor. The 47 means the head is 7" swing and it takes 4C collets.

    Larry

    hardinge-ser-no.jpg
    Thanks for confirming the late 41' date Larry. I had not seen that particular dating chart from Hardinge. I used the attached chart which shows the same S/N dates. The BB4 does still have several of the 4c collets in the rack. My recently re-conditioned TL is S/N 18651 which puts it mid year 42'....but no interesting military tags on it.. The two seem to belong together though. The BB4 is missing the one tag between the Defense dept tags. I thought it would have been the plastic Hardinge name tag but it was a metal tag from the remnants showing under one drive screw. Ed.

    tm-um-hc-early-tl-2-.jpg


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