Hamilton Lathe Resurrection.. Long project

Hello Everyone! I'm new to this site, and this is my first post. I have been reading some threads from this site that came up on Google searches the past couple weeks and have wanted to join. With this next project, I'm going to need some help and it seems this is the place to get it. So here is what I have..

Well I found the remains to what I believe is an old (1875-1905) Hamilton 14" lathe. I'm not sure about that, but that is my best guess.
I plan to get her up and running again, at least that's the plan.

I realize that I'll have a lot more money invested into this old heap than what the end result would be worth. But my plan after its done is not to sell, but to keep and use for other projects.

Now, I don't have Any experience running a metal lathe.. yet. I did purchase an old SB 9 inch a few weeks back. I think it's a model 415, but I need to check the serial number (62788) to know for sure. The SB lathe was working, but in need of a good tear down and cleaning. So that's what I'm doing right now. I was thinking of doing a thread on it, but I'm not sure how interested anyone would be on it. I started last night and hope to be done this weekend.

So this Hamilton is very incomplete. Its missing the tail stock, the entire apron and cross feed assembly, and the motor unit.
If anyone has any parts.. PLEASE let me know. Other than that, I'm thinking of making myself by casting new parts (which I have never done before). So even pictures of a Hamilton lathe would be very helpful. The more detailed the better.

As for the way I want to go. I'm not sure if I want to keep everything completely traditional and keep the machine configured in stock trim. On the extreme end, I'm envisioning a CNC with stepper motors (which I have no experience with). Like I stated, this is going to be a long project for me.

I'm really excited and the more I think about it the more I cant wait to get going with it. I really want to hold back and just clean up all the parts when I get them. I want to spend some time researching as much as I can. So any help and suggestions would be Greatly appreciated. I know its a big undertaking. But I was really interested in some Gingery Lathe projects I came across. This would be a big head start than going that route.


Thanks!
David

Reality check time......There is more missing than you have there.....You don't even know how to use a lathe, yet you think you are going to make about half of one? OK dude, giver hell......My 40 years of machine experience says sell it for parts.

Well, it is a headstart on a Gingery lathe project! I never understood the draw of building yoyr own lathe when there seems to be a ready supply of these old antiques, but that could be different depending on you location. Maybe there is a sjotage in Utah? It would appear that you will also need a working mill to complete this project.

Good luck and keep us posted, you came to the right spot for finding parts.

My detective logic: The cross slide was removed and the carriage used as a boring mill. Note the T nuts still in place. Probably one of the last jobs on it. The cross slide etc. went another direction after the business went under.

That thing's pretty rough, I'm not sure I'd bother. But, it your heart is set on trying, you should adapt the cross slide/compound and tailstock from another lathe. Hope you have a working milling machine...

allan

There are some pictures of a Hamilton lathe in this article .
Machinery
Also here ,
Machinery
I had posted the links in this thread some time ago.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-machine-repair-shop-dickey-ga-1906-a-224360/
Regards,
Jim

I would take that lathe to the scrap yard and look for a complete lathe to restore. There are many good lathes that need a home and will work better that that lathe which will have to be cobbled together. Even if you find a similar lathe chances are that the parts won't fit unless it was made the same year as yours as lathe makers often made small changes to their designs quite frequently.

I admire your enthusiasm but that machine isn't repairable. In the first place, making the missing parts would challenge a very good machinist with a well equipped shop. Finding them is so unlikely I would not hold out any hope at all and, even if you did, they were hand scraped to fit each other and would have to be so again as the parts from another machine may not be a perfect match even if they fit.

I'd hold out for something more complete... perhaps not perfect but at least a project within the realm of possibility, otherwise you'll end up deeply discouraged not to mention having wasted your money. There may not be much available in Utah, but compared to trying to repair that that lathe, paying for shipping would be money well spent.

Thanks for all the input about restoring this heap, positive and negative. I do understand both sides. The positive is obvious and the negatives are just trying to save me a Lot of headache on this.

I mentioned that this is going to be a Long project for me. I know I don't have any machining experience, but everyone has to start somewhere. That's the purpose of this project. To gain experience with a goal in mind.

Thanks for link to the pictures. I'm finding others little by little. There just isn't very much on this lathe. I'm also looking for Good info on setting up a foundry on a small, home shop scale.

I do appreciate All the comments, so please keep them coming. I have had many projects in the past that has overwhelmed me and has pushed me further than I thought possible. This one doesn't seem so overwhelming, but I have yet to work out the real details of how I'm going to get it done. There are quite a few lathes here in Utah in running condition for under $1000 that would suit me perfectly, but my goal isn't really to have a lathe. That would be the icing on the cake. The real intention is doing the work that it is going to take to get this done.


David

David, you can't just jump in on this an expect to restore that lathe to former glory. You could reasonably expect to make it better but will be nowhere near its original level of precision. I've been messing around as a pretty committed amateur home shop type for nearly 10 years- I've messed around with a lot of the techniques that this resto would require and I am nowhere near as skilled as I'd need to be to refit that saddle. This is pro toolmaker territority, there are many of them on this site and they are <<really>> skilled and have equally capable shops to do that kind of job in.

OTOH if your goal is to make it look complete and pretty and have stuff rotate but you do not anticipate going for the high precision fitting work then have a blast.. but please be realistic in your expectations.

A good source of information and helpful guys for building your own foundry is this website: AlloyAvenue network

I think the reason why people are steering you away from this lathe is that all of us can tell that it's a basket case and too far gone, just by looking at the pictures. Even if you rebuild the carriage, cast and machine a cross slide, cast and machine the compound, fix and replace all the broken and missing gears, buy or turn your own leadscrews, cast and machine the tailstock, you will still have a clapped out junk lathe. It doesn't make sense to put all this time and effort into a piece of scrap when you can better focus your energy on restoring a complete antique lathe to perfection.

If this lathe had sentimental value, or it was the lathe that Henry Ford used to build his first automobiles, then it might make sense to bring this lathe back to operational standards.

I guess what I am saying is, why start at 10% and end up at 50% when you can start at 60% and end up at 100%?

If you want to get into metal casting, there are always accessories you can make FOR your lathe (steady rest, follow rest, milling attachments, etc...) that will make it much more valuable as a tool and not just a show piece.

Make a woodlathe from it and sell it (if you have no intrest in woodturning - if you are into metal casting - you need one anyways )

I will NEVER get the people who say "scrap this" "scrap that"

Wood lathes are shoddy pieces of machinery. They have been made from 4x4s , railroad track and recently we have seen one made from heavy gage water pipe. Yes, some of the heavy ones are fine engineering, those made for careers artisans today, foundries and architectural work in the old days. But your average wood lathe is an expensive piece of crap.

This machine could be made into a terrific wood lathe in no time.

If you want to go this road you need another lathe and the usual fabrication equipment. Welder, Drill, angle grinder et al.


As a metal lathe this relic is useless.

If all else fails, turn it into a patio table. Seriously. Anybody who scraps old graceful castings like those legs should be shot on sight....

etard, Thanks for the link! The comment, " I guess what I am saying is, why start at 10% and end up at 50% when you can start at 60% and end up at 100%?" really makes sense. That is a great way to put it. I still have a lot of details to figure out on this. Obviously I would want to get the most from any work I on this and I do see your point. I am restoring my SB 9 inch and am planning to go the way you suggest. Making parts for that working lathe.

Kudos to your enthusiasm and spirit!

First thing is get some jelly on those exposed surfaces. Second thing is find some use for lathe spindle that is lacking feeds or a cross-slide. Some thing like a weld positioner or a bowl lathe for wood. Poor candidate for restoration. Doubly nix on the CNC idea. There is nothing there that would be useful in building an automatic lathe.

If you could find a buyer for parts on that lathe it would pay for a nice, working, lathe. The tooling alone is going to cost more than a second hand lathe would cost.

You couldn't pay me any amount of money to restore that machine. It just wouldn't be possible without another machine that had enough parts on it that the other machine would become the restoration machine and I'd be stripping parts off yours.

If you want to cast parts then find something to cast that is salable. If you want to scrape lathe beds then there are plenty of guys out there who will pay you to scrape lathe beds. If you want to bore cylinders then bore out some worn-but-working quads and such. And finally, if you want to rebuild a lathe at least get one with all the parts.

Zonko-
LOL The legs are what made me go and look at this machine in the first place. I do have a Lot of woodworking machines... almost too many, if that can be possible. Not really a turner, but I do a couple lathes to do work when I need to.

This would make one hell of a wood lathe though. I did consider that very idea. I only sided on the metal idea because of its complexities and precision. Funny though, that a good wood lathe can cost as much as a good metal lathe when the wood lathes are to say the least... not so precise as a machine.
The other night I found a video of a couple guys turning a bowl about 24 inches in diameter with a mini van! With the front of the van on stands, they connected the stock to the front hub and used a snow plow as the tool rest. Yeah wood machines are a bit less precise.

I have the SB I spoke of earlier..

starbolin said:

Kudos to your enthusiasm and spirit!

First thing is get some jelly on those exposed surfaces. Second thing is find some use for lathe spindle that is lacking feeds or a cross-slide. Some thing like a weld positioner or a bowl lathe for wood. Poor candidate for restoration. Doubly nix on the CNC idea. There is nothing there that would be useful in building an automatic lathe.

If you could find a buyer for parts on that lathe it would pay for a nice, working, lathe. The tooling alone is going to cost more than a second hand lathe would cost.

You couldn't pay me any amount of money to restore that machine. It just wouldn't be possible without another machine that had enough parts on it that the other machine would become the restoration machine and I'd be stripping parts off yours.

If you want to cast parts then find something to cast that is salable. If you want to scrape lathe beds then there are plenty of guys out there who will pay you to scrape lathe beds. If you want to bore cylinders then bore out some worn-but-working quads and such. And finally, if you want to rebuild a lathe at least get one with all the parts.

Click to expand...

by casting new parts (which I have never done before).

Click to expand...

Here is a hint on how much effort is involved:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...castings-look-good-255315/?highlight=castings

This is just the interpretation of ignorant novice, so take this with a grain of salt.

This lathe is a lot going against it;
1) The missing tailstock, most likely you'll have to adapt another one. That sounds like a big job to me.
2) The missing cross feed screw and nut, not a super big job.
4) The missing compound, making or adapting a new one sounds like a huge job.
3) The missing bits on the apron, I assume that there is going to be missing parts and broken parts in there as well.
4) There is a large portion of the end gearing missing.
5) I assume that the change gears are missing as well. Fixing numbers 4 and 5 sound like a major job of reverse engineering to me, but I really don't know.
6) The thing has no tooling, that stuff gets expensive, fast.
7) The counter shaft is missing, again a bit of reverse engineering to make a new one.
8) Wear. I assume that this thing is going to be pretty clapped out after a 100+ years.

If you do go through the trouble of rebuilding this lathe, you'll end up with a wore out, obsolete piece of iron. That nobody, but a bunch of half crazy people on an interweb forum are going to think that it's not scrap.

If what you want to do is learn a lot about old lathes and machining, and time and money are not important, then go for it, it would definitely be a "long term project".

Just to prove that I'm not scrap happy.
Here is the thread about my wore out obsolete hunk of scrap iron.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/moving-12-000-lbs-lathe-277845/

vintagerestorer said:

Zonko-
LOL The legs are what made me go and look at this machine in the first place. I do have a Lot of woodworking machines... almost too many, if that can be possible. Not really a turner, but I do a couple lathes to do work when I need to.

This would make one hell of a wood lathe though. I did consider that very idea. I only sided on the metal idea because of its complexities and precision. Funny though, that a good wood lathe can cost as much as a good metal lathe when the wood lathes are to say the least... not so precise as a machine.
The other night I found a video of a couple guys turning a bowl about 24 inches in diameter with a mini van! With the front of the van on stands, they connected the stock to the front hub and used a snow plow as the tool rest. Yeah wood machines are a bit less precise.

Click to expand...

Yep.Quite familiar with that video
I have a zombified Bench lathe somewhere. Similar case to yours, just much smaller. Antique parts are quite nice, but 50% are missing and have been replaced with abysmal crap.

I have no idea what to do with that one either. Pretty certain it will end up as a Wood lathe, coil winding machine, polishing lathe......something of that sort.

Well I did say that this project doesn't seem overwhelming. It really doesn't. There are a lot of parts to fabricate and I do know it can be done. Wether or not it can be done efficiently, cost wise, is NOT the goal. I do know I could just go out buy a machine with all the parts, clean it paint it and make it shine, but that is not what I'm looking for in a project. I already have my little SB for that. This may be too big a job for some, but I see it broken down into multiple smaller tasks. That's how I see every project. Its not the experience that is going to matter here, the mind set to follow through is what is going to bring this to a completed project, as with any challenge.
20 years ago I built a 2 story addition solo, not because no one was around to do it with me. But because I wanted to see if I can do it. Building it really challenged things from screeding the foundation to framing the roof, to installing the 16' concrete horizontal siding without any help.
I also saved a burned up 40' sail boat that was doomed for scrap. But then I'm an engineer that's just the way I think. So making a few metal parts may seem a bit impossible to some, but not to me. It is NOT the lathe I'm focusing on here, but the project. If I wanted a perfect lathe, I would buy one.

So does anyone have info on the history of Hamilton lathes ....