Help Finding An Antique/Vintage Lathe Near Detroit

Hello, my name is Jason and I live in the Metro Detroit area. This is my first time posting here but I have been reading this forum for a long time. Hopefully I am posting this in the correct section.

I'm looking to set up a small shop in my garage consisting of antique/vintage machinery from the 1940s - 1960s. I want to start off with a lathe and then follow up with a mill (thinking about a Toolmaster). Since I'll be working out of my 2 car garage which already has a motorcycle lift, tool box and 3 motorcycles. Space is rather limited. More information about me and what I'm up to can be found in my Bio on my profile.

Just like pretty much everyone else, I have really fallen in love with the 10EE and that would be my first choice. Unfortunately I am not having much luck in finding something suitable in my price range which is under $3000. That includes transporting to my location. If I need to implement single phase power conversion for an additional cost later that is fine. I just need to buy it, get it here for under $3000 and have confidence that it will perform when I do get the power supply configured.

I did find a 1953 Monarch 10EE on FaceBook Marketplace for $2500 I'm still waiting to hear back from the seller, but it sounds like he purchased it from a family member who was in the middle of a VFD conversion 6 years ago. So it has not run in at least 6 years, maybe longer. I don't think it comes with any change gears and I'm concerned about the condition of the ways. Especially since it's been sitting for this amount of time. I also have to factor in a 600 mile round trip to go look/buy it since he is located outside of Chicago.

Referencing a post from a member here called ChipHeadWayne about 8 years ago. He says:

"Seeing no other numbers thrown out there I'm going to take a stab at answering your original question. $2000 - $3000 for a well used but perfectly working 10ee. If there is no wear at all, add $1000. Subtract $1500 if it needs to be ground and scraped to be used at all. Add $500 for a taper attachement, add $500 for inch metric, add $300 for ELSR(electronic lead screw reverse), add $200 for a collet closer, and around $100 per chuck. Subtract $100 for no tool post. That's the value to me and me only; and others have different opinons. I got lucky a few times and found $1500 10ees with tooling. You can find decent 10ees on ebay right now for $4000. So the market varies.

If you can't see it run, you're taking the risk that it doesn't run, and nobody on this forum can mitigate that risk for you. In that case I would buy it for the price you would pay for a non- running 10ee. For me that price might be about 1000-1500 depending on condition, but I know, or can figure out, how to fix them. For everyone that's a different caluulation depending on knowlege, time and access to parts."

I feel like $2500 might be taking quite a gamble with this machine. While I would prefer to get a machine that's in good working order, I'm not opposed to a fixer-upper if the price is right and I can handle the job.

So I'm starting to open up my search and consider other options. Here is a link to what's currently available near by me on Craig's List for under $3000. Do you guys see anything that stands out as a good deal for me?

This Hendey 14X30sure is cool. But I don't know anything about them, what they're worth, if parts are hard to find etc.

There is a pretty cool LeBlond also but I'm worried it may be a bit on the large side for my space.

Please let me know if you guys see anything on that Craig's List link that is worth my attention. Or if anyone has something available elsewhere I would love to talk about it.

I would sure grab that LeBlond over the Hendey, and find space for it in your garage somewhere. As you journey down this path, that extra travel will be appreciated. If a Monarch comes along in your price range, I'd probably go for it over the LeBlond, but condition of the final selection will be the key.

Dan

Hey thanks for the feedback Dan. Since it's 54" between centers I'm assuming that I need to plan on 7-8 feet x 3-4 feet of working space? I'll have to run around in the garage with a tape measure and see what I can accommodate.

As I mentioned in my first post. I want to get a mill and a lathe. Was thinking to start with a lathe but I guess I could go either way. I found what looks like a real nice Cincinnati Toolmaster for $2000. I contacted the guy and he says it does use the proprietary collets but he has the entire set included with it along with a bunch of mills, clamps, vise and some other tooling. This thing looks real clean. Should I jump on it?

Yep the Le Blond is the one ,you will never regret having more C-C distance . Think MC fork tubes !

That Monarch is a steal if there's nothing mechanically wrong with it. It takes a lot to wear out the ways on one of those, although it is possible, and it's an easy test to check. It doesn't take change gears, it's got a gearbox.
It's a very good machine in a good useful size and can be moved by mere mortals - they start getting heavy when they get bigger. I'd be surprised if the 15x54 Hendy was under 4000 lbs, a Monarch of that size would be upwards of 6000. That's a lot of floor space and weight for a home shop, unless space is free or you need the extra size.
You can't run it to test it, but someone started to swap the motor out, and chances are they wouldn't have done that if they didn't have reason to think they'd have something useful when the conversion was done. That is a bit of a gamble, but most old machines are in some way. A visual inspection will tell you if it's been abused - beat up ways, marks from the compound hitting the chuck, broken handles, signs of hammering on the compound, etc. The other Monarch models I've worked with have tops on the headstock that can be taken off easily to check for rust, pitting, broken teeth, etc, but I don't know if there's an easy way to take a look inside a 10EE.
As for "$2000 - $3000 for a well used but perfectly working 10ee. If there is no wear at all, add $1000", I'd love to know where to get a 10EE with no wear for $3000-$4000, and I live in the land of plentiful machine tools.

Manual on the DD LeBlond - which has hardways, taper attachment and speeds to 2400

Manual also nails down physical size of lathe in the line drawings

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2102/20006.pdf

tom_boctou said:

That Monarch is a steal if there's nothing mechanically wrong with it. It takes a lot to wear out the ways on one of those, although it is possible, and it's an easy test to check. It doesn't take change gears, it's got a gearbox.
It's a very good machine in a good useful size and can be moved by mere mortals - they start getting heavy when they get bigger. I'd be surprised if the 15x54 Hendy was under 4000 lbs, a Monarch of that size would be upwards of 6000. That's a lot of floor space and weight for a home shop, unless space is free or you need the extra size.
You can't run it to test it, but someone started to swap the motor out, and chances are they wouldn't have done that if they didn't have reason to think they'd have something useful when the conversion was done. That is a bit of a gamble, but most old machines are in some way. A visual inspection will tell you if it's been abused - beat up ways, marks from the compound hitting the chuck, broken handles, signs of hammering on the compound, etc. The other Monarch models I've worked with have tops on the headstock that can be taken off easily to check for rust, pitting, broken teeth, etc, but I don't know if there's an easy way to take a look inside a 10EE.
As for "$2000 - $3000 for a well used but perfectly working 10ee. If there is no wear at all, add $1000", I'd love to know where to get a 10EE with no wear for $3000-$4000, and I live in the land of plentiful machine tools.

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Yeah I thought that those prices sounded a bit low. But being a total noob I don't really have anything to go on. I saw a guy on YouTube just picked up a VERY nice looking Monarch Series 60 this summer for $2500. But I imagine he was extremely lucky to find something like that. It sounds like it was hard to get it loaded onto a truck due to it's location so maybe that and time factors played into it.

I am confused about the change gears. I saw some for sale and that's why I mentioned it.
Monarch 10EE Round Dial Metric Change Gear Kit | American Machine & Gear Works
and
Monarch 10EE Square Dial Metric Change Gear Kit | American Machine & Gear Works

Are those for something else?

Thanks for your advice!

Im partial to Hendeys but usually find them much cheaper. Your getting ALOT more in the LeBlond. Find the room you will not regret it

The mill looks reasonable ,but as with any machine tool wear is the deciding factor. Parts for this will be few compaired to a Bridgeport.

I am confused about the change gears. I saw some for sale and that's why I mentioned it.
Monarch 10EE Round Dial Metric Change Gear Kit | American Machine & Gear Works
and
Monarch 10EE Square Dial Metric Change Gear Kit | American Machine & Gear Works

Are those for something else?

Thanks for your advice!

Click to expand...

Oh, metric transposing gears. Those are for cutting metric threads on a lathe that's built for SAE threads. I wouldn't expect those to come with a lathe, that's a specialty item.

Lower end lathes don't have the levers to change the thread pitch, you have to unscrew gears from the end of the lathe and swap them around when you want to cut different threads. That's what I thought you were referring to.

Just a few weeks ago I sold a very ugly but good working condition Model 60 for about 1/4 of the price you quote. Deals like that are out there, but that's a BIG machine. I bent a 5500lb pallet jack picking up just the headstock end, and it took up a lot of floor space. Personally I prefer a smaller machine (like a 12CK, which is still bigger than a 10EE) for smaller work, but maybe I'm just a weenie.

JohnEvans said:

The mill looks reasonable ,but as with any machine tool wear is the deciding factor. Parts for this will be few compaired to a Bridgeport.

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What he said. I'd go so far as to say you'll always regret having oddball collets, and it doesn't sound like a such a screaming good deal that you should jump right on it. Around here (New England) you can get a good Bridgeport for comparable or less money, especially if you're willing to hit some auctions during really crappy weather. I would think that Michigan would have enough collapsed manufacturing industry for there to be good deals there too, but I don't actually know.

Lots of good advice here. On the Cincinnati, I'd consider asking some owners of the same or similar model. Is it a heavier, beefier mill than the typical Bridgeport? If so, that is a plus. The offset is as stated above, replacement parts costs or even availability. I'd also be wondering how thick and reinforced is the concrete floor in your garage. Start exceeding #4000 and it may become an issue.

My #2100 Bridgeport mill is sitting on a 4" deep concrete floor and it seems to do ok (no cracking yet). Where you live, your selection base on machines looks great. Here in Oregon, if you do a Craigslist search on a Monarch metal lathe it will normally come up zilch.

Atomic MT said:

I am confused about the change gears. I saw some for sale and that's why I mentioned it.
Monarch 10EE Round Dial Metric Change Gear Kit | American Machine & Gear Works
and
Monarch 10EE Square Dial Metric Change Gear Kit | American Machine & Gear Works

Are those for something else?
Thanks for your advice!

Click to expand...

Those are for enabling Metric Threading on Monarch 10EE lathes that otherwise have no provision for such. Monarch offered them as an accessory "back in the day" for the ability. They will make you a set, still. You will assuredly want to be sitting down when you ask for the price. And that is why we make them for people. ( original idea germinated on this forum, for my own 10EE )

If you do not need to cut Metric threads, then you do not need them, per se'. If you do find that you think you do want a set, there are a fair number of members here that have them and can give you feedback on them.

Good luck with your search.

Regarding the lathe size, my advice is to get the biggest machine you can fit and move. The big ones tend to be less expensive than the small ones because they are so hard to move and power. I've got a monarch 16CY w/54" between centers and a Reed Prentice 14 x 30" between centers. These are likely comparable in size to the leblond and hendey you are considering. The monarch is basically 10 ft long and about 6500 lbs. The Reed Prentice is about 7 ft long and 3500-ish lbs. Both are very heavy duty machines with spindle speeds optimized for HSS tooling. I suspect the leblond and hendey are much the same.

"Since I'll be working out of my 2 car garage which already has a motorcycle lift, tool box and 3 motorcycles. Space is rather limited."

What's missing in this equation is, exactly what sort of projects are you planning to use the machine for. What size machine
do you really need? Just motorbikes or something else?

jim rozen said:

"Since I'll be working out of my 2 car garage which already has a motorcycle lift, tool box and 3 motorcycles. Space is rather limited."

What's missing in this equation is, exactly what sort of projects are you planning to use the machine for. What size machine
do you really need? Just motorbikes or something else?

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I do not have a specific project in mind. It has been many years since I ran any machinery. So for the foreseeable future, it's main use will be for creating large piles of chips on the floor as I intend to start back at square one and build up my skills. I'm sure I would be trying to make small parts for motorcycles for sure. Foot pegs, grips, bushings and spacers, maybe handlebar risers once I get a mill. I cannot imagine what I could possibly try to make that would require a larger machine than a 10EE. Someone mentioned fork tubes but a brand new chrome plated set for a Harley Davidson can be purchased for as little as $130 RRP.

If I had the space, I would love a huge machine like a Series 60. Aside from all of the quality and reliability benefits of a 10EE, there's just something magical about it to me. It's like a piece of art and I would really love to get one and restore it. Yesterday I went and looked at the LeBlond DD and it seems like a great machine for the money. Yes I could fit it into my garage. But it's about 8'6" long. I think a 10EE is 60" long? That space could accommodate a welding cart. I still need a band saw for cutting stock and I'm looking for a mill too. So I have to consider all of these things.

What I'm learning here is that I probably should grab up this 10EE while I have the chance to do so. I imagine I will learn a ton finishing the VFD conversion and getting it operational. Even more as I work through the restoration later down the road. And if the need ever arises or I find myself with more workspace, there seems to be a lot of great larger machines readily available for very good prices.

The seller and I have agreed on what I believe is a fair price for both of us on the 10EE. Now all I need to do is figure out how I'm going to get it home to Detroit from Chicago. I have a Silverado so trying to work out what options are available to me. Hopefully I can rent some sort of trailer that my truck can handle and that can handle the weight of the lathe. The seller says he has a cherry picker and some other stuff to help me get it onto the trailer. If anyone has any advice here it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in and gave their opinions. It was extremely helpful to me in understanding all of the pros and cons of the options available to me.

There's an entire forum on moving machines and rigging. I hauled all of my equipment with a two-wheel drive silverado and a 16', 10,000 gross vehicle rated equipment trailer. The most challenging part of hauling equipment with a trailer is stopping. Make sure the trailer has adequate brakes. However, the most challenging part of moving equipment is loading and unloading the trailer. In general a cherry picker (engine crane) is worse than useless for moving something the size of a 10EE because you're likely to hurt yourself. In my experience, most sellers have a crane or forklift and are well equipped to load the machine onto the trailer. The hard part is getting it off at your garage. For this your choices are to rent a fork truck, hire a tow truck with adequate lift height or hire an excavator with a large enough machine to pick the lathe off of a trailer. If i were in your situation, i would get some quotes from a machinery hauler or find someone with a roll-back truck. That way, they can slide the lathe off the back of the truck into your garage safely. Good luck and be careful.

" I'm sure I would be trying to make small parts for motorcycles for sure."

Unless you buy a turn-key monarch 10ee you will be spending a lot of time rebuilding
one if you buy a non-turn-key machine of that type. Those are great lathes but the drives
are complicated (fire bottles anyone?) and those are big machines. Possibly larger than
you need for the application mentioned above.

Consider a smaller machine to get started. Plusses:

easier to transport
less expensive
take up less room in the shop
simpler drive systems typically
will do 90 percent of the activities related to motorbikes.

Look for a good condition machine that takes 5C collets in the spindle.

10 or 13 inch southbend, 11 inch logan, hardinge DV-59 or split bed ESM-59

These can be had in good condition well inside your budget.

Atomic MT said:

Now all I need to do is figure out how I'm going to get it home to Detroit from Chicago. I have a Silverado so trying to work out what options are available to me. Hopefully I can rent some sort of trailer that my truck can handle and that can handle the weight of the lathe. The seller says he has a cherry picker and some other stuff to help me get it onto the trailer. If anyone has any advice here it would be greatly appreciated.

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Drop deck trailer. Easy to load and easy to unload. Rental places should have them, call around if need be. Up to 10000 lbs load
YouTube