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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    tracking number 9534 6115 9646 0310 4437 76
    =(
    Tracking not working so far:

    =======================
    Tracking Number: 9534611596460310443776
    Status
    Information Available Soon

    USPS doesn't yet have a status update on this item shipped from the Post Office. Information is usually updated within the hour of your visit. Please check back soon.
    ========================

    Estimated delivery date 11/23 it says on the slip. Doc there's probably nothing between you and the north pole except a snow fence!

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Is it possible something in the rotary failed? Isn't is new, and therefore "unproven", except for your short run, just now?
    -That's the current working theory over on the Transfomers & VFDs board. I'm hoping to get my staff Sparky* over later today to help me do some diagnosis.

    (*Okay, he's my neighbor. )

    Estimated delivery date 11/23 it says on the slip. Doc there's probably nothing between you and the north pole except a snow fence!
    -Well, that and a bunch of Canadians.

    Hum. How did you send it? If it's in a Priority Mail box, I hate to say it, but it's likely lost. It never got checked into the system somehow.

    I've never had a package whose tracking number didn't update within a couple of hours of sending.

    Doc.

  3. #363
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    Looks like it was "USPS Retail Ground 1"

  4. #364
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    Solved! (Well, kind of... I think.}

    Turns out the issue was... actually kind of a nonissue. I poked around at it this morning, starting with the simple expedient of plugging my surface grinder into the rotary. That worked perfectly, with both the spindle and vacuum running smoothly and quietly- certainly not the hum or noise one would expect if it were down a leg.

    I then tried putting a spare motor on the high-speed contacts, as suggested. That, too, spun up instantly and ran quietly.

    So I tried hooking the lathe motor back up, but got the same thing. When starting it in low, it turned slowly, but struggled. I stopped it after a few seconds before the breaker could pop.

    Not really knowing what else to do, I tried the "High" button- and it came right up to speed, easily and properly.

    But in low.

    I then hit the "low" button, and it wound up to high speed, again, smoothly and properly.

    Which actually tracks with the consensus I've heard from a couple other W&S owners; the machines generally don't like trying to start in high range, and will often struggle to do so. The trick, therefore, is to start it in low, and once it's up to speed, then switch to high.

    So it works, but the buttons are reversed. Which kind of doesn't make sense, because I'm reasonably sure the first time I tried it, I did in fact push the 'low' button and got low speed. It was only the second time operating it- from a standing start- that 'low' tried to give me 'high', and struggled to do so.

    My only explanation there is that I wasn't paying quite as close attention as I thought, and did, in fact, initially push the 'high' button.

    Keeping in mind I've been handling the loose button panel gingerly and with rubber gloves, considering all the open contacts carrying 240V on the back.

    I wasn't at all sure if I should swap the motor leads at the starters, or just swap the button leads, so I opted to tweak the buttons. Here's the current button wiring:



    In this arrangement, it appears to work perfectly. The only thing I don't know is if I'm using the "wrong" starter on the 'wrong' pole. I can, of course, swap the motor leads, and return the button wiring to the previous configuration, if necessary.

    In any case, at the moment it works perfectly. It comes up to speed in low, with no struggle, and then ramps up to high almost as easily.

    I didn't really have any proper tools mounted, save for the rear-carriage parting tool, so I gave that a try. And, of course, no sweat. A nice smooth cut, no issues, no grabbing.



    No, not exactly a huge challenge, but still satisfying considering I've owned this beast for almost four months now, and have only seen it actually turn under it's own power, like, twice.

    Anyway, again, big thanks to SAF for putting the starters together, and sussing out all the wiring for me. I literally couldn't have done it on my own.

    Doc.

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  6. #365
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    That's the best way to part off in my opinion. I used to set up capstan lathes for a gang of women working on piece work and they could part off like there was no tomorrow. We didn't have " throw away tip " parting off tools then but we still had the tools set up exactly like that.

    I also worked with a Hungarian guy who was the go to guy for long and slender piston rods. He had the tool mounted upside down in the front tool post on his centre lathe and he ran the lathe in reverse. You couldn't knock his results.

    Regards Tyrone.

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  8. #366
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    Oh yeah. Most of the turret setups I've seen, unless they need so many tools they literally don't have the space for 'em all, have a parting tool upside down at the rear. Which, for a bar-fed machine, is of course the last step.

    I'd heard from plenty of people that a rear-mounted post like that solves a lot of small-lathe parting issues- with a lot of explanations as to why, but no solid consensus.

    I do know my little Sheldon, which does have more slop in the cross slide than I'd like, hates parting anything but tubing. I've broken a lot of tips in that thing. The Logan, howver, parts like a dream- in converting it to CNC, I gave it a full-length cross slide that engages the entire dovetail on the carriage.

    This W&S also has a cross slide that's longer than the 'saddle' dovetail- and in this particular ones' case, with virtually no real wear, and so is still quite tight and smooth.

    I figure once I get cutting oil set up, parting will be smoother still. It's almost a shame I don't have room in the shop to set this thing up with a bar-feeder.

    Doc.

  9. #367
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    One of the best things hardinge did, was to make a headstock-mounted cutoff slide. Running that thing, you realize that any other problems anyone has with using cutoff tools, involves a lack of rigidity somewhere, somehow.

  10. #368
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    Now that the mag-starters are here, tested and awesome, it was time to actually bolt them to the machine.

    I'd originally thought about just hanging the box on a nearby wall, but I liked the idea of a more self-contained machine. I doubt this beast will move/be moved much once I have it into place, but still...

    And of course the original factory configuration was to hang all the contactors and junction boxes and whatnot off the back of the machine. That's fine in a factory where the back of the machine will be accessible, but due to space constraints, I have to push this thing up against a wall.

    That pretty much left putting it back more or less where it came from, at the back-left of the machine, behind the collet closer assembly. Even that, though, faced the enclosure toward the wall, so I had to work out something to keep it at least somewhat accessible.

    I've noodled a couple of ideas, but when I started here, it's worth noting I hadn't even drawn so much as a sketch. This is kind of rough and slapdash, but it works, and it's at least not godawful.

    To start, of course, I stripped out the enclosure, carefully keeping track of the wiring and tagging.



    Then I got out a stick of thinwall 1" square tubing, took a couple of measurements, and started work.



    Normally, the drip tray might make an excellent base to attach a mounting frame to, but in this case, that corner of the tray is also the oil reservoir for the headstock. Overzealous drilling and pretty much any welding is, as they say, contraindicated.

    So I notched the end of a piec of tubing to match the lip angle and width, and with a touch of grinding and filing, got a fairly snug fit.



    With another hole to mate up with the top mounting lug of the enclosure, that becomes the main spar of the whole mount.



    A leg out on one side then mates up to one of the two lower lugs...



    And another slotted chunk of tube and a couple stringers makes another leg.



    Why didn't I make a leg like that for both sides? The whole mess is too close to the corner of the tray. The 'outboard' leg would either have to angle forward or just dangle into space. And since the oil-reservoir cap is right under where the enclosure goes, a leg angled to the side of the tray would get in the way.

    I probably could have come up with a more elegant setup, but this was very much a case of designing-on-the-fly.

    Now, the big problem is that, while the lip would easily support the weight, there's not much else back there to bolt to, to stiffen and stabilize it. I'd originally considered that the new rear motor cover might wind up part of the enclosure support, and that turned out to be one of my few options. So I made a spar that mated up with two of the cover bolts.



    The enclosure itself then hangs on it like so.



    And I didn't get a photo, as it's too close to the garage door to get a good angle on it, but the last part was an L-brace that goes from one of the upper belt-cover bolts, to the enclosure itself, seen in the gap here:



    The entire assembly is nice and rigid, and leaves the bottom of the enclosure open to attach the conduit up from the motor, and the input power cable. The button controls will come in from the right side.

    Access isn't amazing, but it's a lot better than if it were facing the wall. And you see why I wanted an enclosure that had a removable cover, rather than a hinged one.

    In the morning, a little trimming, grinding and touch-up welding, primer, then paint!

    Doc.

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    As usual, not much time to spare today, and, of course, some of the suppliers I need for parts, are closed on the weekend.

    First thing I did today was capped off the top of the main support rod, to make it look a little more finished.



    Next, the first of the three electrical connections to the new enclosure, starting with the easiest one. I had this whip left over from the Exacto mill project, and while a little crusty, was the exact kind of strain-relief fitting I wanted.



    A little scrubbing and a quick hole popped in the housing (there are no knockouts) and there's our power connection.



    The other two won't be quite so easy. The machine came with a giant, although badly-installed, section of 1-1/4" flexible conduit for the starter-to-motor wires, and I considered using that, but there just wasn't enough room.



    The local Homey-Dee has a frankly terrible stock of conduit parts, and I'm not exactly a conduit expert anyway. Time for a little more research, as well as waiting 'til the good suppliers open up on Monday.

    Doc.

  12. #370
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    I might admit to having gotten a length of HD flex conduit used for dryer wiring and using that on a machine... the conduit was ok, but the fittings were not so much...

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    Doc, A couple of pointers on the conduit portion.

    Conduit trade sizes are based on the ID size of the conduit. That flexible metal conduit existing for the motor leads looks to be the 1" trade sizes, 1 3/8" fitting hole size.

    You should be able to get the six motor leads comfortably in a 3/4" trade size conduit, if you elected to downsize it. 1 1/8" hole size. The existing conduit size may be oversized to accommodate the shrink tube splices in the motor leads.

    That motor run is also supposed to contain a ground wire for grounding the motor, to be code compliant. The power supply and motor ground wires should be connected to the control enclosure with a 10-32 screw tapped into the enclosure. Preferably with some ring terminals.

    I don't recommend bringing the conduits into the rear of the enclosure. As you see space is tight, and the rear panel is two layers thick with a spot-welded flange, the fittings wont seat flat against the back-panel.

    It looks like the best solution in your limited space would be to use a 45 deg fitting out of the bottom of the enclosure to head down and over to the motor.
    45-liquidtite-connectors.jpg

    45 deg fittings shown above require liquid-tite flexible conduit. They are available from 1/2-2"

    45 deg fittings for the flexible metal conduit you currently have are available for 3/8, 1/2,3/4" sizes, not the 1" you currently have. so you would need to downsize the conduit to use these types.

    If you needed more clearance space for a 45 deg connector to turn back, you could add a threaded coupling on the fitting as a length extension, and use a chase nipple from inside the enclosure to attach the coupling to.

    Another option to get the conduit exiting to the rear, as you were attempting with your existing 90 deg fitting, is to come out of the bottom with a chase nipple. into a corner pulling elbow pointed to the rear, and attach your existing 90 deg flex connector to the elbow.

    halex-conduit-fittings-94510-64_100.jpg
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Halex-1-...4510/203776547

    raco-conduit-fittings-1664-64_100.jpg
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/RACO-1-i...1664/203637482

    Probably best advise would be to consult with your "staff electrician" before you head into town. He might have a better idea what the local wholesalers carry as well, to shorten your chase.

    SAF Ω

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    For your Push-button control run, I would recommend getting rid of the rigid conduit stub from the LB Pull elbow, where the wires were spliced previously. And get rid of the plastic conduit as well.

    Then replace it with some 1/2" liquid-tite metal conduit, strapped down to something, and pull in the wire I supplied.

    wsno2tl-186.jpg

    wsno2tl-138.jpg

    Isn't that a lube fitting I see sticking up from that motor shaft there?
    wsno2tl-121.jpg

    SAF Ω

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    Two words:

    Liquid-tite conduit.

    (three?)

    Spiral metal inner, PVC outer, purpose-built fittings - straight, 90, 45, etc.





    The peckerhead in the lathe motor is home-made, but is protected inside the lathe cabinet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAF View Post
    You should be able to get the six motor leads comfortably in a 3/4" trade size conduit, if you elected to downsize it.
    -That's exactly what I plan to do. The only reason I was considering the big 1-1/4" stuff was simply that I already had it. But it's just too big to fit anywhere on the enclosure.

    That motor run is also supposed to contain a ground wire for grounding the motor, to be code compliant.
    -Technically, the motor is bolted solidly to the base casting, sitting on steel shims. I have little doubt there's solid continuity through the chassis all the way from the motor feet to the case of the enclosure.

    The cord from the rotary is 4-conductor including a ground, and the rotary itself is properly grounded.

    I don't recommend bringing the conduits into the rear of the enclosure.
    -Wasn't really planning on it, that was just pretty much the one and only place I could pass it through.

    It looks like the best solution in your limited space would be to use a 45 deg fitting out of the bottom of the enclosure to head down and over to the motor.
    -If I can get a 45 locally. I might go with a 90, but as you say, out the bottom. The other thing I need to do is make a sort of 'junction box' to go on the rear motor casting. It has to fit between two cast-in flanges, so I'll probably have to make something.

    Probably best advise would be to consult with your "staff electrician" before you head into town. He might have a better idea what the local wholesalers carry as well, to shorten your chase.
    -Yep. we've worked up a simple plan for both the starters-to-motor, and the starters-to-buttons. Once I've had a chance to pick up a couple parts on Monday, he's going to bend me up a section of EMT for the button controls (and likely wind up tying into the enclosure right where I put that L-brace ) and the lower one should be plug-and-play, except for the junction box.

    Isn't that a lube fitting I see sticking up from that motor shaft there?
    -I am not sure what that is. It doesn't look like a grease nipple of any kind, it's not an oil cap and doesn't even look like a plug. The last time I gave it a quick glance, there didn't appear to be any wrench flats or anything.

    Again, it's still a little gunky, and I've been meaning to get down there with a rag and maybe a little solvent and see what I've got. I agree it could likely use some lube, (I just kind of assumed if it was in fact a lube point, it'd be a standard zerk fitting, considering there's about six hundred and eighty-seven of them scattered all over this machine.

    It's on the list, and the list is getting shorter every day.

    Doc.

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  18. #375
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    Next up on the rapidly-dwinding to-do list is some sort of junction box for the connections to the motor, on the back of the motor casting.

    There's two cast-in 'wings' on either side of the cable opening, so no screw-in box is possible. (The big hole isn't threaded, anyway.) And they're just under 4" apart, so whatever box gets made will have to fit in between there.

    AND... some previous owner added extensions to the original motor leads, which were apparently very, very short, and covered them with some sort of heavy-duty, and probably glue-filled, heat-shrink.

    That would limit how much I could bend or otherwise manipulate the wires, so I decided the 'box' was going to also need to be pretty tall. Although being hidden behind the machine, it was sort of a case of who cares what it looks like.

    Hitting up the local metal supplier, I found they had some thinwall (3/16") 3-1/2" steel box tubing. Right on the ragged edge of being too narrow for the mounting bolts, but I think we'll make it.

    Measuring up an appropriate spot from one end, a holesaw gives me the necessary 2" hole for the cables, and a bit of DRO work gives me the mounting bolt pattern.



    Flipping it over and switching to a 2-1/2" holesaw, starts the "access door" side.



    The rest of the opening gets milled out...



    And a cover bolt pattern established, drilled and tapped.



    And, for our six hundredth photo in this series, a couple of end caps bandsawed, belt-ground and deburred.



    The 'bottom' one just gets TIGged in place...



    And the top one gets bored, a threaded collar welded in, and then TIGged in place.



    Why a collar? Because it was easier than adding a second access door, or making a 'full length' door, in order to tighten an inner conduit-fitting locking ring.

    After that, a 'door' cover is also bandsawed out of some spare 12 ga, milled square, belt-sanded round and deburred. The same bolt pattern is drilled, and some temporary bolts thrown in place.



    And there she is. Not the prettiest thing, and certainly not the most elegant assembly I've ever welded up, but it should work.



    Once I get the rest of the conduit run (hopefully Tuesday) and pick up a few new mounting screws, I should be able to get it fully assembled.

    Stand by.

    Doc.

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    Thumbs up

    That's the way to get it done. Make it, if you can't buy it.

    Similar to the last lathe we worked on. Piece of tube to make a raceway, for a cable-duct connection to offset to a splice box connection.

    tuberacewayext.jpg

    12-leblondcrossslidecableduct.jpg
    SAF Ω
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20200925_190340202.jpg  

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    The other half of the wiring is of course the connection to the buttons, which on this machine are built into the headstock. The enclosure for the buttons is connected at the back via a pipe-threaded hole. The original "conduit" for these was simple pipe fittings.

    I wanted to run EMT all the way from the new mag-starter box to the headstock, and so rather than conglomerate a bunch of rigid-to-EMT fittings, I simply sliced up a compression fitting and TIGged it to a cut-off section of pipe nipple.



    That screws into the back of the headstock like so:



    I then shanghaied my friendly neighborhood Sparky, who knows a thing or two about this stuff, and he bent me up a chunk of 3/4" EMT conduit.



    I could probably have managed it myself- I've bent a little tubing in my time- but I didn't actually have a conduit bender.

    While this was all being done, I got out the Greenlees and punched another hole at the bottom for the motor connection, this time using liquid-tight flexible conduit.



    With the mongrel junction box bolted into place, I trimmed the flexy to length and seated the ferrule-thingies at each end.



    And with that, I broke everything back apart, degreased it all, and hit it with some self-etching primer.



    Later this evening, I'll hit it all with the first coat of grey enamel, and then a second coat on Thursday. So if all goes well, I can final-assemble and wire on Friday, which gets this beast back up to full operation, at least save for the cutting oil and backsplash.

    Stand by!

    Doc.

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    Jim R! By some small miracle, your spigot assembly showed up today, well-packaged and none the worse for wear.



    No indication of where it might have gone, and no apparent extra miles on the package. Maybe some drug dog alerted on the brass, or something.

    Once I have the electricals back in order, I hope to spend the weekend getting the coolant sorted out. I supposedly have a chunk of stainless for the pickup-to-pump run, my bucket of 426 should be here in the next day or two, and with a little cleaning and polishing, I think this spigot will work just fine for the output.



    It'll necessarily wind up a touch high, though it may need to just to clear the bigger turret tools.

    I may also wind up making a sort of hybrid- this elbow assembly, but with a shorter spigot arm, a straight 1/4-turn valve, and a short chunk of Loc-Line to make for an even more aimable nozzle.

    We'll see- especially after I start actually using the whole mess.

    Thanks again!

    Doc.
    Last edited by DocsMachine; 11-19-2020 at 12:48 AM.

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    Phew. Glad it got there, the tracking thing was totally useless. The paint BTW is original hardinge. Feel free to clean/polish/paint to match!
    Watch when you unto any of the fittings, the washers there have flats on them and have to go in so the flats match up with the flats on the shafts.

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    Closing on on the finish line!

    I finally managed to arrange my waterfowl into colinearity, with all the parts painted, fresh wire markers in hand, some heat-shrink, and so forth.

    When I'd painted the body of the lathe originally, I hadn't gotten around to the back of the motor base, originally due to limited supplies of paint, so while I was painting the rest of the parts, I degreased what I could and gave it a couple quick coats.



    Then today, after everything was dry, I sat down to do the final install on the electrics. The first thing I did was make ferdamshur I had the wires labeled correctly. Luckily this was aided by the fact some previous owner had labelled them at the motor end, too.



    I'd gotten in some heat-shrink wire labels, but in a bit of a "duh" moment, realized I could, of course, just write any markings on the white wire.

    So since I'd lost a couple of the tape labels while I was horsing around with the junction box (I spotted each one and wrote the corresponding number on the wire with a Sharpie) I double-checked both ends and made sure I had the numbering 100% correct.

    After that, it was a simple matter of reinstalling the freshly-painted junction box...



    And then gently running the lines up through the conduit and cinching things in place.



    After that, I installed the enclosure mounting frame, the enclosure itself, and the rear hard conduit for the controls.



    I'd used compressed air to blow a string through the hard conduit, snugged it all up, and then plunked in the power-in cable, and the elbow on the motor conduit.



    After that, I hung the starters...



    And proceeded to label, terminate and connect each of the wires in turn.



    The motor connections wound up long, so I snipped those off, one at a time, carefully re-wrote the ID numbers on each one, crimped on a good terminal end, and covered it with heat-shrink. In addition to my written tags, these, too, got the heat-shrink tags.



    Et Voila`!



    And that wraps up the enclosure. Line in, lines out, and control connections.



    And the freshly-painted (albeit kind of badly masked ) cover finishes the job.



    SAF left me copious amounts of spare wire for the controls...



    But that was easily remedied. Again, heat-shrink wire markers, a crimped fork terminal, and some heat-shrink.



    And finally, connected to the original buttons.



    Plug 'er in, start up the rotary, punch the "low" button with only moderate trepidation, and she fires right up just like she's supposed to. Another quick test cut...



    And I can pronounce the electricals Done!

    The machine is now fully usable, and very likely moreso than it's been in decades. We're not quite done yet, but I can sure start scheduling the payin' work now!

    Stand by, just a couple more details to sort out...

    Doc.


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