Hendey 14x6 chip pan
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  1. #1
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    Default Hendey 14x6 chip pan

    I'm fabricating a chip pan since my lathe doesn't have one. Can someone give me an idea as to how much a stock one curves upwards on the sides? I'd like to get the one I'm making relatively close to the same as an original... also how far out from each side of the lathe does it stick out... any help or pictures are appreciated. For reference my Lathe is a 1914 conehead

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    Maybe upper edge about 3" above bottom - original has a good size radius at the join with the bottom - but this was a casting - not sheet metal

    basepaint.jpgbaseready.jpg

    Pat Blacks beautiful 14"

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    Thank you... this should help

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    looks like sticks out 6" on either end and 3" to the sides?

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    Ok - next question with regards to Chip Pan......because my lathe didn't come with a pan the legs aren't setup the same way other folks are.....the models without a pan the legs went straight up to the bottom of the bed.
    On the models with a pan I've seen the legs go to the bottom of the pan and then there is a set of shorter legs that go from the Pan to the bottom of the bed. Since I don't have those I purchased some A36 3"x3" stock. I've cut (4) 9" lengths and I'll cut 2 more approximately 3" lengths (the size will be measured once I can place the 9" lengths......basically the 9" lengs will be along both front sides and both back sides and should match the top of the leg on those sides. the shorter piece will fit between them at the ends. 3" seemed like it would be enough to clear the threading reverse lever with room to spare. Basically I'm building a 3" spacer to add to the tops of the legs. I'm milling the stock to the same dimensions for all pieces in the vertical axis.

    Now for my question....given the heaviness of the stock and the fact the bolts will go straight through (legs, pan, stock, to bed) is there any reason I need to weld the 3 pieces of stock together into a U shape? I'm thinking that given the bed and legs are in rigid form, and the 3" shim as it were is dimensionally the same all the way around I don't actually need to and I can avoid the consequences of any warping. If I do need to weld it is there any problem with me bolting the shims to the top of the legs to hold them while I weld as long as I'm careful to go slow and not let much heat built up at a time? (My thought is that my welding table is cheap and portable and in reality I need this stock to mimic the top of the legs not some arbitrary flat surface although in theory the top of the leg should in fact be flat.

    Hopefully this makes sense....thanks for any advice.

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    How do you plan to work around the feed reverse lever linkage? My 14x6 Hendey doesn't have a chip pan, either, and I have been brainstorming trying to design one for it, so I am interested in your plans.

    The lower shaft with the lever that goes through the leg is actually a stop rod to shut the feed off when it hits the stops... I'm pretty sure the feed will operate in both directions without that lever, but I'm not planning to just remove it... if you extend the lever 3 inches to compensate for your risers, the lever ratio will be wrong...

    I'm interested in seeing what you do with it.

    -Bear

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    Unless your lathe will be out in the open with easy access behind it, leave plenty of room between the stop rod and your new pan or you will create a RPIA when it comes time to clean out the pan or retrieve parts or tools that get dropped onto the chips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 682bear View Post
    How do you plan to work around the feed reverse lever linkage? My 14x6 Hendey doesn't have a chip pan, either, and I have been brainstorming trying to design one for it, so I am interested in your plans.

    The lower shaft with the lever that goes through the leg is actually a stop rod to shut the feed off when it hits the stops... I'm pretty sure the feed will operate in both directions without that lever, but I'm not planning to just remove it... if you extend the lever 3 inches to compensate for your risers, the lever ratio will be wrong...

    I'm interested in seeing what you do with it.

    -Bear
    I think I'm ok - I'll include a picture to show why but that lower shaft doesn't actually go through the leg. It hangs suspended from the bed and passes behind the leg. The mount point is actually in the inside of the bed and is far enough back that it should clear my 3" shim from a front to back perspective because my shim should be the same width as the top of the leg and bottom of the bed mounting point....lets see if I can include a picture or two. Note this doesn't address whether even 3" is enough to make emptying pan easy enough

    20201225_195638.jpg20201212_145725expanded.jpg

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    Actually in looking at my own reply and that picture again I do have problems <sigh> While I'm right that it hangs suspended from the bed I just noticed the bar is blow the bolt together of the leg where it curves to hit the pivot point. Off the cuff the only thing I can think of is moving the pivot to the inside side of the vertical lever and re-doing the portion of the shifter bar visible with the curve....come straight off the pivot with a new short bar that bends and clears and attached back to the horizontal bar. That would involve cutting that bar though which I'm going to have to think long and hard about.

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    Thanks - I'm still noodling on how I want the pan to look - I have yet to fabricate it so I'm thinking that while the attachment will be under that spacer and at the top of the legs I may cause it to drop down further somehow. Assuming I come to a conclusion on how I want to handle the forward/reverse thread lever I'm talking about in the other reply. I thought I was being practical by justing some good heavy 3" square stock and not trying to get fancy. Now I'm not so sure.

    20210110_194555.jpgsmartselect_20210104-010109_photos.jpg

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    riftware:

    This is a subject, to the best of my knowledge, that has never been discussed in depth. Basically, there were two types of Oil Pans,
    cast iron and sheet steel. Two factors controlled the size of the Oil Pan, the swing of the lathe and the length of the bed. Except for
    the 12 inch swing lathe and the 4C model, which were always sold with an Oil Pan, the Oil Pan was an accessory that cost extra. During
    the cast iron era these Oil Pans were know as "bath tubs", if you ever tried to move one, you know the reason for the nickname. I will
    have to do more research to determine when the change over from cast iron to sheet steel took place and possibly who supplied the new
    style Oil Pans.

    Concerning making an Oil Pan, either cast iron or sheet steel will depend on the circa of your lathe. If you are a purist and your lathe is from the cast iron era, then cast iron is your only choice. Making patterns and machining the cast iron will prove an interesting
    project that could get a bit expensive but a very rewarding experience. Regardless of when your lathe was built, if your goal is to keep
    swarf and oil from messing up your floor, then sheet steel is the easiest way to solve the problem. That being the case, may I suggest,
    that instead of trying to guess at the dimensions, just use the original Oil Pan drawing for your lathe size.

    On the lathes that were fitted with Oil Pans, whether Cone Head or Geared Head, a short leg was fitted between the Oil Pan and the lathe
    bed. Their size varied with the swing of the lathe. Whether you decide to cast or fabricate this short leg, again, using the drawing
    would make the job a bit easier.

    One more Hendey accessory that you might want to consider, that is rarely mentioned, is the Portable Oil Pan. It is an Oil Pan that fits
    on a frame work mounted on wheels. It is made to roll under the bed of the Cone Head lathes and has the advantage of easy cleaning.
    While it was made in the cast iron era, a sheet steel Oil Pan would work just as well as cast iron. Just something to think about.

    Hendeyman

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    I like hendeyman's suggestion to make a portable chip pan. IMO when these lathes were built, you have to consider the low RPM nature of the machine means that most of the chips and coolant were falling straight down and it was expected that the shop would also be regularly sweeping the floor (which is the biggest chip pan anyway). It's not like today where 100% of the chips and coolant needs to be contained. Since you're only cutting in one place at a time, making a smaller movable chip pan might be an easier and more practical solution than an integrated one. That's the approach I'm taking with my 14x12 Whitcomb Blaisdell lathe at home. I'm building storage shelves underneath with room on top for a smaller pan that I could move closer to where the cutting is happening as needed, which will be under the head-stock 90% of the time.

    IMO, if you were going to make an integrated chip pan, I would replace the cast legs with welded steel so that you can position the pan correctly in the middle without lifting the whole lathe. The rule of thumb I was always taught is that lathe heights are made so that the cross-slide handle is at the belly button of the average guy (of course that's different for everyone, but it gives you an idea). I've removed lots of home-made risers from lathes to put them at stock height and never regretted it as it puts the work and controls at a much more practical level. If you do replace them, keep the old cast legs in the attic for the next lathes owner, or pass them on to someone who needs them for a Hendey (not a kitchen table).

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    My 1903 Hendey [12"] was dreadfully low even for me at only 5'10". I had to raise it up 5" since the stock cross slide handle was more at ball height. Guess people were shorter then.001.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by hendeyman View Post
    riftware:

    This is a subject, to the best of my knowledge, that has never been discussed in depth. Basically, there were two types of Oil Pans,
    cast iron and sheet steel. Two factors controlled the size of the Oil Pan, the swing of the lathe and the length of the bed. Except for
    the 12 inch swing lathe and the 4C model, which were always sold with an Oil Pan, the Oil Pan was an accessory that cost extra. During
    the cast iron era these Oil Pans were know as "bath tubs", if you ever tried to move one, you know the reason for the nickname. I will
    have to do more research to determine when the change over from cast iron to sheet steel took place and possibly who supplied the new
    style Oil Pans.

    Concerning making an Oil Pan, either cast iron or sheet steel will depend on the circa of your lathe. If you are a purist and your lathe is from the cast iron era, then cast iron is your only choice. Making patterns and machining the cast iron will prove an interesting
    project that could get a bit expensive but a very rewarding experience. Regardless of when your lathe was built, if your goal is to keep
    swarf and oil from messing up your floor, then sheet steel is the easiest way to solve the problem. That being the case, may I suggest,
    that instead of trying to guess at the dimensions, just use the original Oil Pan drawing for your lathe size.

    On the lathes that were fitted with Oil Pans, whether Cone Head or Geared Head, a short leg was fitted between the Oil Pan and the lathe
    bed. Their size varied with the swing of the lathe. Whether you decide to cast or fabricate this short leg, again, using the drawing
    would make the job a bit easier.

    One more Hendey accessory that you might want to consider, that is rarely mentioned, is the Portable Oil Pan. It is an Oil Pan that fits
    on a frame work mounted on wheels. It is made to roll under the bed of the Cone Head lathes and has the advantage of easy cleaning.
    While it was made in the cast iron era, a sheet steel Oil Pan would work just as well as cast iron. Just something to think about.

    Hendeyman
    Hmm...definite food for thought. I'm not 100% purist - I actually bought it to get myself something useful that would be far more rigid than my Grizzly benchtop. However I'm also not trying to make this look like crap either.....sort of a pure as I can but willing to do practical modifications...for instance it will for sure have a tach and a DRO when I'm done...but neither of those alter the lathe so it can't be put back to stock easily. My 3" spacers I thought fell into the same category allowing me to use the 1/8" steel sheet I bought to fabricate a chip pan that wouldn't actually alter the lathe itself....until someone poked holes in that theory by pointing out I mildly underestimated the reversing lever problem....thats the first issue that would cause me to have to modify an original part so I'm reconsidering.
    Things I'm going to consider:
    1. I've already bought the steel for the risers...thats a couple hundred bucks total.
    2. I've already bought the 1/8" steel sheet
    3. I think the lathe was a bit low for my taste when it was on the floor (currently its on 6" caster platforms so I can work on it easily but thats temorary.


    Counters to that list:
    1. The steel can be used for other things over time
    2. The sheet could be used for other things over time, including possibly fabricating a mobile one as suggested
    3. I need to re-measure the Lathe height minus the platforms versus my gut height from floor. If all I need in the end is some height that can be done from the bottom.



    Out of curiousity Hendeyman, how much would you charge for the drawings on the short extender legs and a suitable stock style pan for the 1914 era 14x6 lathes? (you can PM me if you prefer). Even if I don't wind up trying to fabricate them and I go with the Mobile option I'd still probably be interested.


    Thank you again for the knowledge.

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    Good points and I'm definitely considering all of them. Fortunately its a project in and of itself not something I urgently need in production yet so I can take my time and think through ramifications.

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    Wow, a DRO? Never thought of that. Man, think of all the time I wasted getting my dials derusted, buffed out, "ledgidible" and low backlash!

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    Quote Originally Posted by riftware View Post
    I think I'm ok - I'll include a picture to show why but that lower shaft doesn't actually go through the leg. It hangs suspended from the bed and passes behind the leg. The mount point is actually in the inside of the bed and is far enough back that it should clear my 3" shim from a front to back perspective because my shim should be the same width as the top of the leg and bottom of the bed mounting point....lets see if I can include a picture or two. Note this doesn't address whether even 3" is enough to make emptying pan easy enough

    20201225_195638.jpg20201212_145725expanded.jpg

    Oh... ok, yours is not made like mine... the pivot on the arm that the lower shaft connects to actually goes through a boss cast into the side of the leg on mine...

    I have considered a 'chip pan on wheels' to go under my Hendey... I am leaning that direction...

    -Bear

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    11 ga (“1/8” ) Is just nuts for a chip tray, 16 ga is fine.

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    I have an extra chip pan I would be willing to sell. It's off of a Hendey 14 x 42.

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    The Dro is mainly because I lack confidence on the dial system... I hope to get mine working as you described as well but I like DRO. my respect to anyone that is good at using the Dials accurately though

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