Hendey 9x18 Tool and Gage Lathe

Peroni · Jul 11, 2020

I've been wanting a Hendey Tool & Gage lathe for quite some time. Had hoped that when the day came I would of found a lightly used late model 9x24 in working condition but it is not to be just yet. Instead I would up with a well used 9x18 that is missing the taper attachment and sports a few broken pieces. S/N is 36522, I'm awaiting more detailed info from Hendeyman but from the s/n list this is pretty late in 1944. It is also a nasty greasy mess inside, I've literally already removed pounds of grease from the innards and there is more to come out still. Apron was packed nearly full as well. The lathe shows signs of inconsistent lubrication, some bearings are bound up in hard dried grease whilst others are overflowing in fairly fresh soft stuff.

I got the lathe mostly disassembled for cleaning and some repairs. I could use some help removing the spindle. The 7 cap screws and 3 bolts are out, feed drive gear, spacer and nut are off as is the rear bearing cover plate. Rear plate for the front bearing is loose as is the cover just behind spindle nose. I got the nut in front of the spindle drive sheaves back up as far as it can go. Am I missing anything else? Do I just make a protective cap for back end of spindle and bop it out?

In the apron what clearance do I need for side play of the feed worms? Worms themselves look new but the pinned steel washes on each end have some wear as do the bronze bushings leading to a bit of side to side play. Shafts and bushings for the carriage traverse gearing are worn bad but only the rack pinion shows some wear. Half nuts and leadscrew look brand new, makes one wonder if this lathe ever cut a thread in its life?

In the collet storage locker was an original Link Belt manual for my drive along with part of a badly worn out chain. I took a quick peek inside the PIV unit and it looks like the replacement chain is still in new condition. This one has the semi-automatic tensioner. Appears the seals have been leaking so they will get replaced. What are folks using for oil in these? The book says that for my temp range to use an AGMA 7 mineral based oil – translates to ISO 460. Primarily use Lubrication Engineers here and was thinking about their Almasol 460. Mobil SHC 634 is also another candidate. PIV is driven by a Westinghouse 1.5hp 3phase motor.

All the drive belts were of the cheap adjustable link type and soaked in grease. What sizes do I need here? Looks like there are an even dozen belts required including the feed belt.

Lastly I'm in need of a few parts. My tailstock handle was broken and badly repaired as was the cross slide extension. The front left access door to the clutch was broken, two rear covers for the base are missing and the whole taper attachment is long gone. The drive selector lever is broken, going to need all new felt way wipers, cross feed nut and and likely a new screw as well plus the threading stop parts are also missing. I could also do with a new change gear cover, mine has been brazed a few times plus whoever added the 5C closer ground a hole in the top of cover for clearance. Anyone got a parts machine to help me out?

thermite · Jul 11, 2020

Peroni said:
I've been wanting a Hendey Tool & Gage lathe for quite some time. Had hoped that when the day came I would of found a lightly used late model 9x24 in working condition but it is not to be just yet. Instead I would up with a well used 9x18 that is missing the taper attachment and sports a few broken pieces. S/N is 36522, I'm awaiting more detailed info from Hendeyman but from the s/n list this is pretty late in 1944. It is also a nasty greasy mess inside, I've literally already removed pounds of grease from the innards and there is more to come out still. Apron was packed nearly full as well. The lathe shows signs of inconsistent lubrication, some bearings are bound up in hard dried grease whilst others are overflowing in fairly fresh soft stuff.

View attachment 293891

I got the lathe mostly disassembled for cleaning and some repairs. I could use some help removing the spindle. The 7 cap screws and 3 bolts are out, feed drive gear, spacer and nut are off as is the rear bearing cover plate. Rear plate for the front bearing is loose as is the cover just behind spindle nose. I got the nut in front of the spindle drive sheaves back up as far as it can go. Am I missing anything else? Do I just make a protective cap for back end of spindle and bop it out?

View attachment 293887

In the apron what clearance do I need for side play of the feed worms? Worms themselves look new but the pinned steel washes on each end have some wear as do the bronze bushings leading to a bit of side to side play. Shafts and bushings for the carriage traverse gearing are worn bad but only the rack pinion shows some wear. Half nuts and leadscrew look brand new, makes one wonder if this lathe ever cut a thread in its life?

In the collet storage locker was an original Link Belt manual for my drive along with part of a badly worn out chain. I took a quick peek inside the PIV unit and it looks like the replacement chain is still in new condition. This one has the semi-automatic tensioner. Appears the seals have been leaking so they will get replaced. What are folks using for oil in these? The book says that for my temp range to use an AGMA 7 mineral based oil – translates to ISO 460. Primarily use Lubrication Engineers here and was thinking about their Almasol 460. Mobil SHC 634 is also another candidate. PIV is driven by a Westinghouse 1.5hp 3phase motor.

View attachment 293889

All the drive belts were of the cheap adjustable link type and soaked in grease. What sizes do I need here? Looks like there are an even dozen belts required including the feed belt.

Lastly I'm in need of a few parts. My tailstock handle was broken and badly repaired as was the cross slide extension. The front left access door to the clutch was broken, two rear covers for the base are missing and the whole taper attachment is long gone. The drive selector lever is broken, going to need all new felt way wipers, cross feed nut and and likely a new screw as well plus the threading stop parts are also missing. I could also do with a new change gear cover, mine has been brazed a few times plus whoever added the 5C closer ground a hole in the top of cover for clearance. Anyone got a parts machine to help me out?

View attachment 293892 View attachment 293890

Member Trboatworks threads should get you started. There are others on PM as well. Some are in the Monarch Forum due to similarities and mutual respect. The Hendey was probably a 10EE's closest competitor, but the wars are long over, etc!

A rebuild of TR's T&G included the PIV drive and "A" section vee belts. He also had his spindle out and PM went through Hendey's choice of grease, in contrast to, for example, Monarch using oils.

TR did first-class work in the refurb, so it ended up a rather smooth and lovely T&G - I've seen it.

That said, ISTR only a portion of the very comprehensive refurb work he did was detailed in PM threads, so "start there" and add to your collection with the search functions.

Or contact TR?

As found in the wild- the Hendey T&G is on the way to the shop

Hendey Tool and Gage running now

I managed to bend my spindle- interested in any approaches to git 'er straight

HTH

Peroni · Jul 12, 2020

I've read most threads on the T&G lathes going back to around 2004 but had neglected the bent spindle thread. That had the info I needed and here we have success!

With the spindle out I was able to dig another few pounds of grease out of the lower headstock. Still a nasty greasy mess but at least it's manageable now. Why Hendey went against all their former practices with oil lube and changed to grease on this machine I can only wonder. Main bearings will be repacked with Kluber, probably keep grease for the clutch and idler, rest is going to oil lube. Sorry Hendey Machine Company but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

Peering into the void there is still decades worth of swarf mixed with grease and ground up drive belts to remove

Looking again at the V1-50 PIV drive I think someone has cut off one end of the speed control shaft? When I got the lathe the speed control was not hooked up. The bracket was flopping around loose in the cabinet and a plastic hand knob was in its place. The service instructions are not specific to this model but I think that knob should be on the cut off end of the speed control shaft.

I still haven't found where anyone mentioned what actual sizes the belts are. Just a little discussion on A or B type but no lengths. Hendeyman did post some Dayton numbers but those are defunct with no cross over chart available. In the collet locker I did find a section of belt someone saved that says Gilmer 3680. No idea which location it would go though.

thermite · Jul 12, 2020

Peroni said:
I've read most threads on the T&G lathes going back to around 2004 but had neglected the bent spindle thread. That had the info I needed and here we have success!

View attachment 293923

With the spindle out I was able to dig another few pounds of grease out of the lower headstock. Still a nasty greasy mess but at least it's manageable now. Why Hendey went against all their former practices with oil lube and changed to grease on this machine I can only wonder. Main bearings will be repacked with Kluber, probably keep grease for the clutch and idler, rest is going to oil lube. Sorry Hendey Machine Company but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this.

View attachment 293922

Peering into the void there is still decades worth of swarf mixed with grease and ground up drive belts to remove

View attachment 293921

Looking again at the V1-50 PIV drive I think someone has cut off one end of the speed control shaft? When I got the lathe the speed control was not hooked up. The bracket was flopping around loose in the cabinet and a plastic hand knob was in its place. The service instructions are not specific to this model but I think that knob should be on the cut off end of the speed control shaft.

View attachment 293919 View attachment 293920

I still haven't found where anyone mentioned what actual sizes the belts are. Just a little discussion on A or B type but no lengths. Hendeyman did post some Dayton numbers but those are defunct with no cross over chart available. In the collet locker I did find a section of belt someone saved that says Gilmer 3680. No idea which location it would go though.

Measure the fool things. Go get ONE EACH cheap-ass A or even 4L belt "close to" at NAPA. Now CUT IT, and get "the real" measurement with it down in the vee to the driveline's "pitch line" they work to.

Under 20 bucks and you can then order a proper set and expect them to fit.

B section SUCKS. An "A section is made to a tight enough 'normal" tolerance they are de facto already "matched" off the back of it. That's why we see as many as six or eight of 'em where HALF as many "B" section would cost the Earth to half-way "match". Like the sets of too-many bumbling "B"s the 100 HP motor to compressor drive on an A2 Liquid Oxygen plant wanted.

Grease works. Might be ugly, but it HAS ALREADY lasted a long time.

Kluber specializes in one thing above all other things.

Their "soap" lasts fifty percent to waay to Hell and gone LONGER than any other maker. That's what Kluber DO! The most reliable longevity, price be double-damned.

Just do NOT "over-pack!"

browniesharp · Jul 12, 2020

I have a Barber-Colman (later Hendey) 9 X 24 lathe, so I don’t know if this applies to your 9 X 18 machine with mechanical drive. I looked at the belts on mine. The three belts between the jackshaft and the spindle are Goodyear HY-T plus Matchmaker series A64(4L660). Those between the jackshaft and the pinion gear (which meshes with the backgear) are Goodyear FHP 4L430. However in notes taken during a phone conversation with Hendeyman designate these as A41. I’m assuming then that the “A” belt designation is 2 inches shorter and 1/10 the value of the 4L notation.
You might want to contact Shapeaholic to see about those missing parts.

jwearing · Jul 12, 2020

Very nice, is that the one listed on ebay recently?

I have two 9x18’s, one is almost done, the other is still in pieces in storage.

I will be making patterns and have new front cabinet doors cast. Not sure when I’ll get around to it, not really a priority for me. Let me know if you’re interested.

The belt sizes are listed in the operation manual, contact hendeyman for a copy. I don’t remember if these are from the book, or my measurements: (From right to left)
2x a38
3x a91
3x a38
3x a69
1x a21

PIV control looks fine to me. Do you need a new flex shaft? I ordered a FC375-.438-.438-24 from Home. The other place to get them is SS White. That size fits well but it really needs a housing of some sort to keep it from flopping around.

thermite · Jul 13, 2020

jwearing said:
operation manual, contact hendeyman for a copy. I don’t remember if these are from the book, or my measurements: (From right to left)
2x a38
3x a91
3x a38
3x a69
1x a21

"A" section are surely the "right ones".

If I haven't mentioned it "enough" 60 years and counting, an "A" section Vee is the top of the food chain if legacy vee belts are to be used at all.

Whether "planned that way", or the dice-roll of a "sweet spot", no other Vee section is as all around good, nor even as well-constructed and durable in the land of the legacy Vee.

The similar-shaped 4L and cousins are lighter-duty, lower power-transmission capable, cooler off lower flex-friction and priced as more affordably expendable off the back of external damage exposure a higher probability.

The 4L tribe are accordingly more often found making the mower blades on light ag and groundskeeping goods go round and round!

4L no b'long Hendey!

Nor those annoying pop-bead snap-the-bits-together excuses for a power transmission component, either.

"A" section. Fit and forget. Seriously. Not as cheap to buy, but they last a long time.

shapeaholic · Jul 13, 2020

Be really careful with the belts!
These machines seem to be very sensitive to belt length and match. My machine will "pulsate" if the belts are not matched and tensioned correctly. I ended up mounting mine on rubber machine mounts to finally get rid of the vibrations.

What parts are you missing? I do have a few left overs. I also have a 24" project lathe that I could be talked out of quite easily.

Also, not all T&G lathes were shipped with a taper attachment. It was an optional accessory.
Is that serial number you posted complete? A lathe built as late as you suggest would likely have had an "H" in there somewhere.
Hendey started to produce all lathes in 24" and hardened bed(H) by the mid 40's. Also the mechanical drives were only available by special order by then.

Hopefully Hendeyman will fill in the details.

With regard to lubrication; These machine were grease lubricated (except for the ways). The best grease I have found is aeroshell 22. ( I'll look up the mil spec number) Some care is needed as the machine has a number of bronze bushings that will not like the anti wear additives found in some grease.

Have you seen my rebuild thread in the monarch forum?
A Hendey 9 T&G "wreck"
There are some pictures in the thread regarding the removal and installation of the spindle. It is more work than it seems at first look.
Thermite is correct about the Lub for the spindle bearings. Kluber is probably best. Be careful of the rear bearing as it is no longer available. There is a "fix" but it requires modification the the inner bearing cap.

Pete

shapeaholic · Jul 13, 2020

Peroni said:
Peering into the void there is still decades worth of swarf mixed with grease and ground up drive belts to remove

View attachment 293921

Peroni, did you remove the backgear pinion ( the bit that bolts to the lugs shown)?
If yes, be careful to reinstall the shims under the mounts, as this sets the clearance for the back gears. It is a bit of a pain to do, and if wrong will cause trouble shifting the gears.

Pete

Click to expand...

Peroni · Jul 14, 2020

jwearing thank you very much for the belt lengths! That at least gives me a place to start. Appreciate a link for the speed control flex shaft as well. My outer flexible tube is fine, the inner cable is a bit buggered up where it should affix at the driven end. I've not messed with it yet to see if it will work or not. My front cabinet doors are salvageable but I do need the two rear ones. Would you have a photo of them so I know what they look like?

shapeaholic yes I have read the excellent thread on your magnificent long bed T&G restoration. At first from the seller's photos I did not think this lathe had the taper attachment. But upon seeing it in person It has the cross slide extension with the brass sliding chip guard still there. This part was broken and poorly repaired which led me to think that the taper attachment was ruined when the slide was broken, or because the slide was badly repaired the attachment would no longer fit/work and was left off and lost. For parts right now I could really use a tailstock handle, cross slide extension and the 239 gear shift lever. I could get a new tailstock handle cast if I can borrow one. There's a bunch of other stuff I need but think I can make or fix most of it.

Yes the s/n is 36522. My list shows 1944 at s/n 36265 and 1945 at s/n 36585. Hendey did not harden their beds until 1947, I had a #2GP lathe 37212H91 which was circa 1947. I read that production of the 18" bed stopped around the beginning of 1945. I was hoping to score a 24" machine as my heavy 10" South Bed is also an 18" machine and I could use the longer length on some of the smaller parts I make.

Yes I removed the back gear pinion, there were no shims anywhere to be found. Might not have needed any? I will take care to check the gear spacing when putting everything together but that's a ways off right now.

Whilst waiting on seals for the PIV drive I got stuck into the clutch which was a poorly adjusted mess. The bronze shift ring had not been greased in decades, it has a big groove worn in one side where it rubbed the clutch pack adjustment ring keeper pin. Someone didn't get it back in the hole and when using gear drive it ate into the softer bronze. It's pretty worn on the inside where it rode against the hardened steel collar. If I can't get it to work right I do have a chunk of bronze here big enough to make a new one. Also found one friction disc is broken. Before I go find a sheet of friction material to mill a new one from does anyone happen to have an extra? I didn't bother contacting Twin Disc. From past experience even if they can supply the part they are stupid expensive. All the bearings are New Departure 8026, single shield on one side, open on the other and all are contaminated with grit and need replacing. I'm going to see about replacing them with sealed 88505 bearings and not have to deal with greasing them and contaminating the frictions again.

jwearing · Jul 14, 2020

I also did not find any shims under my back gear pinion, but Pete brings up a good point. This will have to be refit if having the bed ground / scraped.

The part number for the clutch friction disc is 2297. I ordered a set last year, about $30 each. Don't delay if you are going to order, because they are in short supply. My dealer told me that after looking everywhere, only three were left (after my order), and no more would be produced. Let us know if you hear differently.

BTW I suspect that these break on installation. You'll see what I mean... go really slow when you're reinstalling the pulleys.

Here is a conversation I had with Hendeyman regarding the clutch discs:

I spent two hours yesterday trying to determine if I had the parts. According to Hendey records, this style of Twin Disc Clutch was only used for a few years.
A note in the files indicates that on August 22, 1957, Twin Disc stopped selling the complete clutch unit and would only supply individual parts. In the 2003
Twin Disc Parts Catalog, only three parts were listed including the Friction Discs, but these appear to have been dropped in 2004 as my wholesaler no longer
had them available. I did find some basic specifications for this clutch in the parts catalog and a Hendey drawing for the Driving Ring gives all of the necessary
information for machining the Driving Friction. The Clutch Specification is X4827C Model CC-3025. The Driving Plate Number is 2297 (3 required) and the
Driven Plate Number is 2327 (2 required). If you decide to make your own Driving Plate the O.D. is 3-1/16" and the teeth are machined to a 8-10 Stub profile
and a 20 degree Pressure Angle. We have not had any of these parts in inventory in over forty-five years. If I can be of further help, let me know.

Doozer · Jul 14, 2020

I am in Charlotte NC, not all to far from you.
If you ever want to stop by and check out my
T&G or have any questions, shoot me an email
[email protected]

--Doozer

Peroni · Jul 23, 2020

jwearing said:
The part number for the clutch friction disc is 2297. I ordered a set last year, about $30 each. Don't delay if you are going to order, because they are in short supply. My dealer told me that after looking everywhere, only three were left (after my order), and no more would be produced. Let us know if you hear differently.

Thanks for that! I got in touch with Palmer Johnson and bought two new frictions. Got hammered on shipping but still came out less than what it would cost me to make one. My salesman did not know about qty on hand or if more would be made. If there were only 3 now there is one left for someone else.

I got the spindle bearings removed from the headstock casting, New Departures all around with twins at the rear instead of a wide single. The front bearing came out with spindle and I'm wondering how hard it is to remove? Looks like the bearing spacer is on there too. There isn't enough room to get a bearing separator between the front cover plate and spindle. I'm reluctant to put any pressure on outer half of bearing. Do these normally slide off or are a push fit instead of press? I know once I broke the old dried grease bond the other bearings came out easy from headstock.

Peroni · Jul 25, 2020

Time to start removing over 7 decades of repainting. Due to wartime restrictions there is no filler on any of the castings. One coat of red oxide primer followed by one coat of dark grey. Inside of the base got a thin coat of white. Over the years this lathe was repainted light grey, a puke green, a dark green, equipment yellow, light grey again and finally white. The last layer appears to be applied with a mop after washing the shop floor. Inside of the base was a nasty greasy oily mess with swarf packed tightly all around the drive base plate. Hosed it all down with two cans of heavy duty oven cleaner and let bake in the 90° sun for an hour. Pressure washed that off and the grease was gone but most of the paint wasn't going anywhere. Pulled out the needle scaler and went to work,4hrs later here we are.

I finally got the front spindle bearing and spacer off by placing the assembly on the dash of my car, rolling up the windows and letting it bake for several hours. That melted the old dried up grease and the assembly came apart by hand. Soaking the bearings in mineral spirits in preparation for some Kluber spindle bearing grease.

ClappedOutBport · Jul 26, 2020

Wow, I've never even seen one of these before. One of the coolest lathes I've seen. Subscribed and looking forward to updates.

Peroni · Jul 28, 2020

The bed got same treatment as the base. Using a fine stone and some oil I carefully dressed all the raised burrs and dings on the ways. Overall the bed is not in as good of shape as I would like. Pronounced wear ridge on both sides of both saddle ways, it's worse in the middle and fades out at each end. I measured .004 to .006 using shim stock and a straight edge. Tailstock ways seem to be a little better. Probably should be planed and the saddle built back up but that's beyond my abilities here. The plan is to get the lathe fixed up and operational again, use it a bit and see how it cuts. Might be fine? Might have to be moved along to someone with less demanding work? We shall see.

As time permits I've started making some replacement parts. Here is the compound nut and gear/belt feed shift "shoe" made from 932 bronze.

Peroni · Sep 8, 2020

Work has been progressing on the Hendey as time allows. To date most of the repairs have been to the clutch and that assembly is finally finished and in place. I found assembly was easier by leaving the driving insert free from the pulley. It was quite easy to line up the clutch discs and get this piece over them without breaking anything and there is still room to tighten up the retaining screws once the pulley is pressed on.

In the tailstock end of the base there is an opening to the inside that is not blocked off. Upon disassembly I found the entire void packed with chips. This is just empty space so I made a little block off plate. On the face I decided to engrave the lathe's info for posterity. It's not readily visible but this little project kept me entertained whilst waiting on a very long cycle time with another job.

With the drive unit assembled and painted, chip pan cleaned painted along with underside of the bed it was time to reassemble everything. All surfaces were carefully checked for dings and burrs before being cleaned with a naphtha soaked alpha wipe. Once set in place I checked for gaps between the parts with a feeler gage, finding none the 8 retaining bolts were torqued down. Starting to look a bit more like a lathe again but there is still a lot of work left to do.

A note about belt lengths. None of the previously mentioned sizes fit my particular lathe except for the A38 from clutch to back gear idler pulley. Putting all the adjustments about halfway and measuring with a new length of belting I get A41 for motor to PIV, A65 from back gear idler to back gear pulley and A88 from clutch to spindle.

Peroni · Sep 8, 2020

I spent a little time over the long weekend working on the speed control. It was not hooked up when I bought the lathe and looks to not have been operational for some time. There are two adapters that look to be shop made on the speed dial end of the assembly. One links the flexible cable to the handwheel shaft, the other is held in the speed dial body with a setscrew and the metal cable sheath plugs into it. Only it doesn't really work or fit well at all. I'm certain the cable and sheath are original parts only they seem too short. The sheath adapter has to be pretty long to make up the difference but now it gets in the way of the back gear belts.

One end of the cable is damaged and I suspect this was the end of the speed control working? I've got a message into Flexi-Shaft to see if they can either fix it or some up with a replacement.

jwearing · Sep 8, 2020

Looking great. I like the engraved plate over the swarf-hole.

That flex cable looks original, but I don't think you'll successfully crimp a new end onto it. What diameter is it?

Here are mine: middle came with machine #1, hardware store wire rope. Lower came with #2, looks mostly original but it's a bike lock cable inside the sheath. It has a ~6" shaft extension where it attaches to the PIV, I think you're missing this. Top: this is the part that I ordered from flexishaft. Works great but it does flop around a little without the sheath.

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