Hendey Conehead with a homemade carriage?

jimsnell · Aug 5, 2018

Hi, I'm New Guy!

Just brought this home... I was actually on the internet looking for a mini lathe to make some hinges with. Hendey serial 27236. 16x8 Conehead. Homemade carriage, casting at the bottom of the secondary gearbox broken, but doesn't seem to be affecting operation. Can't feed in reverse (toward the headstock) so I think it can only do left hand thread. No auto crossfeed. Interesting find for less than the price of a harbor freight mini lathe. Any ideas on where to maybe find parts for this one? Pedigree by Hendeyman?

Thanks for any help you can give.

jimsnell · Aug 5, 2018

Another one of the carriage.

thermite · Aug 6, 2018

jimsnell said:
Another one of the carriage.
View attachment 234903

Hoo! Only thing I can think of as might bust a Hendey saddle is an overhead crane op dropping sumthin' sore MASSIVE! I doubt you could create an on-machine crash bad enough to even come close.

Whomever was desperate seems to have had the remains of that, as parts of it were re-used.

One might guess "wartime" and few other options to be had?

Probably CAN turn out better work than an HF LSO, even crippled as it is, but still..

If the dream is A) a new casting, B) salvage from a partout, fitted-up.. what's your "plan C"?

jimsnell · Aug 6, 2018

thermite said:
Hoo! Only thing I can think of as might bust a Hendey saddle is an overhead crane op dropping sumthin' sore MASSIVE! I doubt you could create an on-machine crash bad enough to even come close.

Whomever was desperate seems to have had the remains of that, as parts of it were re-used.

One might guess "wartime" and few other options to be had?

Probably CAN turn out better work than an HF LSO, even crippled as it is, but still..

If the dream is A) a new casting, B) salvage from a partout, fitted-up.. what's your "plan C"?

Plan A was to build some hinges for some bumper I'm starting to manufacture. So plan A is already achieved. I'd be willing to try Fabbing up a carriage based on original drawings. Anything else would be dumb luck, I'm realistic about that.

thermite · Aug 6, 2018

jimsnell said:
Plan A was to build some hinges for some bumper I'm starting to manufacture. So plan A is already achieved. I'd be willing to try Fabbing up a carriage based on original drawings. Anything else would be dumb luck, I'm realistic about that.

Finding a lathe that had no such need would make more sense. Casting made sense when one COULD readily cast as an economical return on the cost of making patterns. Not so much for one-off's.

What it probably needs "most" is better long-axis bearing slide surfaces.

What could be cheap enough is to sub a stouter steel plate for the top, perch a repurposed commercial stand-alone CI slide on it. Taylor, IIRC.

Beyond that, put your time and money into some other lathe, Hendey or no, and let this one become a parts donor for other tie-bars, rather than a parts "sink".

2CW

johnoder · Aug 6, 2018

Don't see a lever on shaft below carriage - this reverses the lead screw - and thus the "feed"

Here is the manual scan - thanks to Greg Menke for hosting it for me

http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/docs/hendey/1920-Hendey-manual.pdf

Here is my old wrtie up on that lead screw reverse system - it starts on Post #17 in this link

Hendey lathe "emergency"!

RCPDesigns · Aug 6, 2018

I agree with Thermite, what you have there is a nice parts lathe and all you need is another Hendey conehead and you'll be making chips. You could also get some wood and thick glass and make a nice table with the legs.

Sam Shublom · Aug 6, 2018

I don't have a carriage, but I have a spare apron for a 16" Hendey cone head. PM if you are interested. Sam

M.B. Naegle · Aug 6, 2018

I'm normally very stubborn about saving machines (and classic cars for that matter) that most would let go, but I think that one might fall into the part-out category. If the ways and headstock are in decent shape, you may find replacement parts from another machine. But I'd be ready to do some fitting if you try to put another hendey's saddle on this one. I think it will be much much easier than trying to build one from scratch, but you need to make sure it's riding evenly on the ways and scrap it to fit, or it will likely wear on the V-ways oddly.

jimsnell · Aug 6, 2018

thermite said:
Finding a lathe that had no such need would make more sense. Casting made sense when one COULD readily cast as an economical return on the cost of making patterns. Not so much for one-off's.

What it probably needs "most" is better long-axis bearing slide surfaces.

What could be cheap enough is to sub a stouter steel plate for the top, perch a repurposed commercial stand-alone CI slide on it. Taylor, IIRC.

Beyond that, put your time and money into some other lathe, Hendey or no, and let this one become a parts donor for other tie-bars, rather than a parts "sink".

2CW

There is a standalone slide somewhere in the pile of parts that I assume was used exactly like you just suggested. Really all I set out to find was something to turn hinges (steel on uhmw). I'm by no means a machinist, just a fabricator that needs hinges.

thermite · Aug 6, 2018

jimsnell said:
I'm by no means a machinist

Oh yeah?

You spotted this "contraption", saw a way to make use of it, ARE making use of it to acceptable tolerances "in spite of"?

That's a "problem solver". A machinist's single most crucial skill.

Were I back staffing-up? I'd take-on all that sort of "not a machinist" I could find.

They see a need, UNDERSTAND it, then self-teach to meet the need. Don't need carried about like a backpack full of bricks.

And Iyam LAZY!

jimsnell · Aug 6, 2018

Machinist is something you have to earn, just like welder or ....

I'm just some guy that needs hinges. Thanks for the kind words, I try to run my business the same way. I'm just all about the end product making people happy. If that means a mostly broken hundred year old lathe, ok.

jimsnell · Aug 6, 2018

That being said, this thing is sticky and grimey and nasty. Everything either turns really smooth, or it feels like the oil has turned to beeswax and needs a clean and re-lube. What kind of lube is recommended for the exposed gears? How do I verify that operation of the oiling system? I don't want to further damage anything, after all.

johnoder · Aug 7, 2018

How do I verify that operation of the oiling system? I don't want to further damage anything, after all.

The only thing even approaching a "system" is the marvelously designed ring oiled spindle bearings. The ring dips into the low oil reservoir, turns with spindle, and brings up the clean light bodied oil you have placed there. The large ball shaped covers topside are INSPECTION PORTS for observing this ongoing process

All else is oil holes - many originally covered by small ball shaped plugs that screw in

The missing apron had several of these

The "system" for oiling the ways and slides is YOU with your squirt can full of such as Vactra #3 way oil

jimsnell · Aug 7, 2018

I remember using way oil from high school, thanks for the name. Now I know what to look for. What about the gears? What's the real sticky stuff you use on them?

M.B. Naegle · Aug 7, 2018

Velocite #10 for the main spindle bearings (high speed precision application).

Way oil for the ways and crosslide. It's slippery and adhears to flat surfaces, like having microscopic ball bearings under the ways.

Mobile DTE Heavy/Medium (hydraulic oil) for everything else, like shafts, levers, gears, etc.

You don't want "sticky" because it will hold debris in rather than flusking it out. Hydraulic oils and circulating oils are made to flow into and around parts and rinse while they lubricate. Different types will work better in enclosed spaces, pressurized systems, seeping through oil tubing, or crawling up gear trains.

You may choose to shop around for cheaper oils, but the types and grades are made for specific uses. Using the wrong oil can sometimes do more damage than good.

4GSR · Aug 8, 2018

I remember seeing a few old cone head lathes converted over for making "big" coil springs. Some had the original carriage, and some had a special carriage being used. Been too many years ago. I saw this in one of the spring shops we dealt with in the Houston area.

hendeyman · Aug 8, 2018

jimsnell:

Hendey lathe No.27236, a 16 x 8 Cone Head model, was completed during the second week of September 1928. It was shipped with a Compound
Rest, a Taper Attachment and a set of No.6 Collets. The original owner was the Hallidie Machinery Company, Seattle, Washington. There
are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings are still in the
files, so parts can be made as required.

There are several issues to consider here, firstly the matter of Feed direction. As Johnoder has pointed out , the Feed Reversing Shaft is still installed and provided that the Bell Cranks have not been damaged, you should be able to operate the Dog Clutch without too
much trouble. Because the goal is to get the lathe operational with the least expense and time delay, use a set of vice grip pliers as
a make shift handle. Wrap a piece of shim stock around the shaft to prevent marring the surface. Test the shaft in all three positions
and see if you can get the "carriage" to travel in the proper direction. Because the Apron is missing, you will have to engage the Half
Nuts anytime you want longitudinal travel. For cross feed, you could mount a Top Slide off another lathe on the "carriage" and adjust it
for center height. Except for screw cutting, I would recommend hand feeding for all other operations.

The broken piece on the Intermediate Gear Housing shouldn't prevent it from operating properly. I would suggest that considering the
basic condition of the Gear boxes, "carriage" and "apron" that the Intermediate Gear should be disengaged, except for screw cutting.
As you learn more about the operating conditions of this lathe, you can keep it engaged more often. Considering the many unknown factors
regarding this lathe, it is best to make haste slowly.

One more note about using parts from other lathes of the same size. You must take into account when the donor lathe was built, because
the parts may not interchange. Hendey made small changes to the Beds, Carriages, Aprons, Headstocks and Tailstocks over the years. While
some of these changes were very small, they will prevent the parts from being used on lathes of a different period without a great deal
of hand fitting. If you do acquire parts from a different lathe, please post the Serial Number from the donor lathe, if possible, and I
will check the drawings to make sure they are suitable for your lathe.

Hendeyman

thermite · Aug 8, 2018

jimsnell said:
Machinist is something you have to earn, just like welder or ....

I'm just some guy that needs hinges. Thanks for the kind words, I try to run my business the same way. I'm just all about the end product making people happy. If that means a mostly broken hundred year old lathe, ok.

So primarily you are a Manager.

Simple enough "law":

"A manager is someone who gets the job DONE with the resources he HAS. Not those he WISHES he had."

jimsnell · Aug 12, 2018

hendeyman said:
jimsnell:

Hendey lathe No.27236, a 16 x 8 Cone Head model, was completed during the second week of September 1928. It was shipped with a Compound
Rest, a Taper Attachment and a set of No.6 Collets. The original owner was the Hallidie Machinery Company, Seattle, Washington. There
are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings are still in the
files, so parts can be made as required.

There are several issues to consider here, firstly the matter of Feed direction. As Johnoder has pointed out , the Feed Reversing Shaft is still installed and provided that the Bell Cranks have not been damaged, you should be able to operate the Dog Clutch without too
much trouble. Because the goal is to get the lathe operational with the least expense and time delay, use a set of vice grip pliers as
a make shift handle. Wrap a piece of shim stock around the shaft to prevent marring the surface. Test the shaft in all three positions
and see if you can get the "carriage" to travel in the proper direction. Because the Apron is missing, you will have to engage the Half
Nuts anytime you want longitudinal travel. For cross feed, you could mount a Top Slide off another lathe on the "carriage" and adjust it
for center height. Except for screw cutting, I would recommend hand feeding for all other operations.

The broken piece on the Intermediate Gear Housing shouldn't prevent it from operating properly. I would suggest that considering the
basic condition of the Gear boxes, "carriage" and "apron" that the Intermediate Gear should be disengaged, except for screw cutting.
As you learn more about the operating conditions of this lathe, you can keep it engaged more often. Considering the many unknown factors
regarding this lathe, it is best to make haste slowly.

One more note about using parts from other lathes of the same size. You must take into account when the donor lathe was built, because
the parts may not interchange. Hendey made small changes to the Beds, Carriages, Aprons, Headstocks and Tailstocks over the years. While
some of these changes were very small, they will prevent the parts from being used on lathes of a different period without a great deal
of hand fitting. If you do acquire parts from a different lathe, please post the Serial Number from the donor lathe, if possible, and I
will check the drawings to make sure they are suitable for your lathe.

Hendeyman

Thanks for the info. I was able to get it feeding both directions. I got the motor wired up correct (110 right now, need to run some conduit where it's going to be set up.) Need to add the shim on the big bearing and get both oil rings free, and I think I'll be in business. Need tooling though. Don't have a tool post, compound slide, center, or a chuck for the tailstock. The only chuck I have is a 3 jaw, but that'll work just fine for the "precision" parts that I'll be making. It needs disassembled and cleaned in a big way. From looking at the last time any new material was purchased, my guess is that the spindle started getting stiff in the early 90s and it's been sitting since then.

Any idea what the taper is in the tailstock? Opening measures roughly 1.25". What about the headstock? Is it standardized in some way that I could get a faceplate and center, or a 4 jaw?

Hendey Conehead with a homemade carriage?

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