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    Default Hendey Lathe Information

    Hey All,

    Been a long time since Ive been on here, busy working I guess. I have a shop full of CNC machines, an old M head Bridgeport and an Atlas Craftsman lathe for light duty stuff here and there. The Atlas is only a 6" and not real sturdy. Found this Hendey for $500 locally, and figured Id give it a shot. Ive never even heard of the name, Im used to Southbends, Logan, Monarch, etc. Got it back to the shop, made a cart for it real quick (Im 6'4" and it was wayyy to short for me to stand at) and started looking for info. Not a fan of the color, so itll eventually get a full resto with some new paint, but for now at least I can move it around.

    Ive seen a bunch of posts where "hendeyman" has chimed in and given info for machines, and hopefully he sees this and can shed some light on this. I know its an 8 speed gear head, 14x6 (not sure what the 6 is for....) and its got a bunch of "add-on" stuff from other owners to drive it with a single phase motor. I fired it up before buying it, it spun nicely and fairly quiet, both forward and reverse, and the power feeds worked in Z but he didnt know how yo get the cross feed to go. He also showed me the 1/4 knob for the power feed. Pretty cool feature!!

    Its got the taper attachment, a full collet set with a draw bar, the original (maybe) 3ph GE motor, and a weird toolpost that the previous owner cobbled up, that ill get fixed up with a nice steel platform spacer of sorts. Also, whats the white wheel next to the chuck for? Ive seen a few attatchements mentioned for work on the side of parts? Like a shaper of some sort?

    So here we are! Maybe this thing is 100+ years old? No idea. Serial number is 25191.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20200918_022814.jpg  

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  3. #2
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    Early twenties

    Here is "manual" scan

    http://pounceatron.dreamhosters.com/...dey-manual.pdf

    Here is a write up on their lead screw reverse system - starts at post #17

    Hendey lathe "emergency"!

    Have fun

    ON EDIT

    and the power feeds worked in Z but he didnt know how yo get the cross feed to go
    "6" is the overall bed length in feet

    Cross feed is the OTHER clutch knob on the face of the apron - and could be STUCK

    "White Thing" lets you turn head stock by hand would be my guess (not original)

    hendey-8-speed-design-comments.jpg

    Ive seen a few attatchements mentioned for work on the side of parts?
    Maybe you are thinking about RELIEVING attachments - see manual scan above
    Last edited by johnoder; 09-21-2020 at 12:16 PM.

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    Looks like a fair deal at $500, you gotta wonder about some peoples choice of colors

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    mvpolo2k3:

    Hendey Lathe No.25191, a 14 x 6, Eight Speed, Geared Head model, was completed during the end of the third week in March
    1924. It was shipped with a Taper Attachment, an Oil Pan and a Set of No.3 Collets. The original owner was Perine Machinery
    Company, Seattle, Washington. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts available for this lathe, but all of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if required.

    The handwheel located near the chuck is not original equipment supplied with the eight speed lathe. It is located on the
    end of the Power Shaft and may take the place of the Bearing Collar. It is possible that it was installed to allow the
    Power Shaft to be turned when a belt guard was in place, but that is just a guess.

    I am always interested in learning more about Hendey products and various devices used on them. I am not familiar with the
    term "1/4 Knob" (although, I know its a "pretty Cool Feature"), but would you be kind enough point out its location and
    function.

    Hendeyman

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    Hey guys!!! Thanks for the info and replies. For some reason I wasnt getting notified of them through my email, ill have to check on that. Ill take a youtube video later tonight and post it up. Ive been doing a fair amount of teardown and clean up on this unit, so far nothing looks worn or bad other than the power infeed knob.

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    This machine didnt travel very far, I bought it from Obert Marine Supply, also in Seattle, which has had it for at least 40 years. I live about 45 minutes away. Small world.

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    A few things.


    1. I would never operate a lathe on casters. Even working on it is a bit sketch to me, it is pretty top heavy. But you need the bed to be straight for use which can't happen if it's on wheels. I'd add some leveling feet when you get ready to start cutting.
    2. The belt pulley looks very well done. Can't say anything bad about that upgrade.
    3. I wouldn't be so hasty to ditch the clutch. I just got my first clutch lathe up and running and I never want to go back. No VFD can match that ramp up speed. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to leave the linkage intact.
    4. My understanding of the 1/4 feed thing, is that the feed is 4x finer than the thread, which isn't designed for standard feeding use. It seems to be the old style of revolutions per inch. So 80*4 = 320, 1/320 = 3.125 thou per rev. Certainly annoying for people used to modern power feed nomenclature, but I'm sure you'll get used to it.
    5. Cross-slide feed knob looks stuck. Hence it's just turning the shaft which has no resistance because it's not enabled. If you enable the cross feed it might free up.
    6. I don't own a Hendey, but I don't think your handwheel should freewheel like at 2:20. I'd love to hear other's thoughts, but that seems wrong to me.
    7. Thermoplastic sounds like a recipe for a disaster for a chip pan. Chips will rain down at 700+F and melt into it I'd imagine and it would be a disaster. Regular old enamel is probably the way to go.
    8. 5 HP may be too much. That's almost certainly more than it was designed for. 7.5 is asking for trouble. I'd stick with 3. 3 is a lot of power anyway for a slow machine.


    Gl, looks like you've pretty nice machine.

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    ClappedoutBport, thanks for the reply.

    I would never operate a lathe on casters. Even working on it is a bit sketch to me, it is pretty top heavy. But you need the bed to be straight for use which can't happen if it's on wheels. I'd add some leveling feet when you get ready to start cutting.
    Everything in my shop that weighs less than 5000lbs is on casters. Both bridgeports, atlas lathe, this lathe, cold saw, etc. Im 6'4" and I need things higher as is, and I re-arrange so often its a pain to get the forklift in certain areas. Im not chasing tenths here, I have the big CNCs for that. This is just for some general work. The cart will be mounted to the lathe legs after i get them cleaned up and painted, and i made sure to put the caster centerline past both front and rear extents of the machine.

    The belt pulley looks very well done. Can't say anything bad about that upgrade.
    Belt pulley setup was indeed done decent, just not really "visually pleasing". 2 of the belts are pretty trashed as well. I design automotive belt drive systems for a living (mainly supercharger stuff) so Im sure it will get a flare of that variety.

    I wouldn't be so hasty to ditch the clutch. I just got my first clutch lathe up and running and I never want to go back. No VFD can match that ramp up speed. It certainly doesn't hurt anything to leave the linkage intact.
    2 things about ramp speed. the faster the ramp, the more wear and tear on stuff, especially dog-type clutches. I dont need the thing to start and stop on a dime, especially with a heavy or large work piece. I understand why they had the clutch there with the unified drive flat belt systems, but its 100% not needed in this case. i also dont like having to reach over my workpiece to grab the bar. the other thing with the clutch, i have a few people that use the shop besides me, and they have FAR less awareness of leaving the key in the chuck. the other lathes VFD is set to ramp VERY slowly for the first 2 seconds, then ramp to speed. this lets the key just fall out, rather than end up across the shop. just my preference to "idiot proof" things a bit.

    My understanding of the 1/4 feed thing, is that the feed is 4x finer than the thread, which isn't designed for standard feeding use. It seems to be the old style of revolutions per inch. So 80*4 = 320, 1/320 = 3.125 thou per rev. Certainly annoying for people used to modern power feed nomenclature, but I'm sure you'll get used to it.
    you are correct on the 1/4 deal. newer machines have much larger gear boxes and more gear options. They usually stop in the mid 100s for thread/inch and swap over to thou/rev at some point. i think this was just an early implementation on that. i may make my own chart for the 1/4 scale ranges in thou/rev just for reference. its mainly used for finish work, since 80TPI is still fairly rough with a sharp tool. Either that or ill have to do the math all the time!!!

    Cross-slide feed knob looks stuck. Hence it's just turning the shaft which has no resistance because it's not enabled. If you enable the cross feed it might free up.
    The whole carriage is coming off, and all that green paint is gonna get blasted off there and everything will get a good going-through. I was fairly certain it was stuck, but didnt want to force it and break something on a 96 year old lathe.

    I don't own a Hendey, but I don't think your handwheel should freewheel like at 2:20. I'd love to hear other's thoughts, but that seems wrong to me.
    Its freewheeling since the feed select lever was trying to run the infeed (X axis) and not the crossfeed (Z axis). I may have those terms backwards, but Ive always used them in terms of feeding into the diameter of a part, and moving across the side of a part.

    Thermoplastic sounds like a recipe for a disaster for a chip pan. Chips will rain down at 700+F and melt into it I'd imagine and it would be a disaster. Regular old enamel is probably the way to go.
    well, the "idiots" of the shop like to drop things. I have a big stainless tray my buddy with a sheet metal shop is whipping up for me, so that should roll over the front and rear lips and catch 99% of the chips. we do mainly 6061 parts anyways, so im not super worried about it. just not sure if its gonna be cost effective, or if ill just do like you said and toss some enamel on there and call it good.

    5 HP may be too much. That's almost certainly more than it was designed for. 7.5 is asking for trouble. I'd stick with 3. 3 is a lot of power anyway for a slow machine.
    agree to disagree here i guess. I upgraded my atlas from a 1/2hp 110v to a 3hp 3ph with a VFD, which was a massive improvement, but it still has nowhere near the power I would expect from 3hp. My M head round ram is still the stock 1/hp as well and it drives me nuts. Id rather put something large on there and never need it, than waste time doing a 5hp and wishing id gone a little bigger. I do a lot of large dia stuff, so every bit of torque helps, espeically in deep 6061 cuts.

    I appreciate your feedback, hopefully some of my stuff makes sense as well. heres a few pics of the other junk i have laying around. some pics are from the old shop, the new shop is the exposed beam with the epoxy floor. Kinda hard to see the cart that the M head is on, but the Atlas is on a rolling cabinet that I built, and the 3 axis Dyna has the same style cart as the Bridgeport now.

    img_20180325_182905_384.jpgimg_20200526_113923.jpg20171028_101237.jpg

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    I don't think your handwheel should freewheel like at 2:20
    Little lever beside it takes it out of gear

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    Well you definitely have some big toys and know what you want. Hard to argue with that. 3hp on an Atlas is pretty insane lol.

    Again, on the feed it's not just for cuts coarser than 80. It's every time you use feed. Even if you want to feed at "80", you want to choose "20" and use the feed. Half-nuts aren't meant for feeding use, at least not if you want them to last.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Little lever beside it takes it out of gear
    Ah. Thanks John. I wondered if that was the case. Do these have oil pumps, and that allows it to be pre-lubed?

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    3hp on the atlas will barely do a .025 deep cut at a pretty slow feedrate in 6061. The odd belt ratios on the atlas dont help though.

    Not sure what you mean on the using the half nuts for feeding. I guess im just used to the atlas since thats all it has is the main feed nut. Ive been using nothing but that for feeding into work for the last 20 years and it hasnt gotten any worse.

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    No oil pump. They have like 50 locations to lube manually. I still have to find them all.

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    Some makers were thoughtful enough to post what the feed was - in turns per inch - and us moderns can just take the reciprocal of that

    Such as 320 divided in to "one" = .0031"

    You can make out some of those turns per inch feeds here on a twenties Greaves Klusman

    imgp1557big.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvpolo2k3 View Post
    3hp on the atlas will barely do a .025 deep cut at a pretty slow feedrate in 6061. The odd belt ratios on the atlas dont help though.

    Not sure what you mean on the using the half nuts for feeding. I guess im just used to the atlas since thats all it has is the main feed nut. Ive been using nothing but that for feeding into work for the last 20 years and it hasnt gotten any worse.
    Your mistake is basing that off your Atlas, which must be slipping or something.

    Based off my machining calculator, 3hp gets you 7 cubic inches a minute in 6061 T6. That's... a lot. To put that into some practical terms, that's 1/4" off the diameter of a 4" piece at 14 thou/rev at 330 RPM.

    At 7.5...

    17 in^3/min

    The same cut but on an 8" diameter work piece would still require 400 RPM.

    See what I mean? It's a ton of power. Theoretical isn't real world, but I have taken 1/4" off 6061 at ~500 RPM at 20 thou/rev easily with 5hp. It's a lot.

    My concern is that with a clutch locked out, cog-tooth belt, giant motor, there will be no "fuse" in the drivetrain. If something gets jammed or a cut is too heavy, it's gonna be a gear-tooth that goes. With 4 vee-belts you at least have a prayer. 2 is probably plenty.

    ----------------

    Yes, these do feed differently. You use the half nut on the atlas as that's all it has. But on real lathes, there is a gear reduction system which drives it via the rack, same as the hand feed. The clutch enabling it. Much better system, you don't have to drop in a notch, there is an overload feature, and it's much easier to disengage at a shoulder. There is no reason to ever use the half nut for feeding on this lathe.

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    ClappedOut, there is no belt slip with the Atlas, and it actually stalls the motor out with too deep of a cut. As far as ive seen there is no rack gear drive, just a feed screw on the hendey, and my atlas as well. I usually dont take deep cuts if feeding either way, but a little extra power is nice. Not sure if im gonna keep the V belts or go over to a standard 8 rib automotive style K profile belt. The VFD will fault if it sees overcurrent so im not to worried about a mechanical fuse.

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    Looks like there IS a feed rack under here. So im guessing that knob will engage that, rather than using the feed screw. 16016879104377548987090687003494.jpg

    Getting lots taken apart and ran through the hot tank. Amazing how tight they get flathead hardware! Bed looks a bit worn ans so does the carriage. Have to rig up a slide and see how worn it really is. 1601687990226150815478970857413.jpg

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    got the apron and power feed off, and the cross feed parts. some of this stuff was pretty dang stuck. the air hammer definitely came in handy for some of the shafts. a few questions tho.

    1. anyone elses lathe magnetic? I was taking some screws out and noticed that the bed and most of the iron covers are very lightly magnetic.

    2. how does the cover for the feed gearbox come off? is it screwed on from the back side?

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    how does the cover for the feed gearbox come off? is it screwed on from the back side?
    Top is sort of a tray - held on by screws

    There is no other cover. The GEARBOX is bolted to bed, comes off full of gears , and most of them came off with the full length lead screw installed. The cone of gears in the box are on the lead screw.

    EXCELLENT photos here, though not including your head stock

    Hendey 14 by 6 Tie-Bar Rehab

    have fun

    On Edit....

    Here is a little blurb on your head stock from about 1920 or so

    hendey-8-speed-design-comments.jpg

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    mvpolo2k3;

    Your YouTube video was very interesting. When I inquired about the 1/4 feature I was aware that you most likely were
    referring to the Feed rate, but it isn't normally listed that way. Hendey preferred to call the feed rate so many times greater than the number of threads. I suppose that this was a more convenient method for machinist to use. Depending on when the lathe was built and its size, the most common Feed Rates were; 4x, 5x, 6x, 7x and 8x. When the Feed Clutches are
    disengaged, the carriage is moved under power by the Half-Nuts. When the Feed Clutches are engaged, an interlock prevents
    the Half-Nuts from being closed and the Carriage and Cross Slide movements are controlled by the Friction Clutches in the
    Apron. The Feed Rate will be determined by the number of threads selected on the Gear Boxes and the gear ratios in the
    Apron. The Feed Worms in the apron are normally (one) single start and (one) triple start. The Apron gearing (Worm Gears,
    Cross Feed Gear and the Rack Gear and Pinion) are proportioned to cut a 45 degree angle when both Clutches are closed at
    the same time. To prevent slippage, all Frictions should be slightly "proud" of or flush with the surface of the Worm
    Gear. When the Friction is below the surface of the Worm Gear, then the Friction will "bottom out" in the Worm Gear and
    slippage will occur.

    It is normal for the Reversing handle to become loose over the years, you will find the key in the Handle is worn. Another
    source of wear is the Featherway in the Reversing Shaft, there are ways to correct the problem without having to make a
    new shaft.

    The device you thought might have been driven via a belt from the small pulley driven by the Power Shaft would be called
    a Relieving Attachment and is used to "back off" the teeth of various types of milling cutters. It is not belt driven, but
    is driven via a gear train at the left hand end of the lathe. For your lathe, you would need to have a "C" type RA that is
    designed to fit a 14 inch lathe. There are various gear sets used on these attachments depending on whether it was
    designed to be used with a Sub-Headstock or not and the number of Lobes on the Cam that is installed (2,4 and 6). Before
    buying one , make certain that it is correct for your lathe.

    When you decide to install a new motor drive, you might consider building one of the floor mounted drive units that Hendey
    developed during this time that would allow flat belt operation and use of the original Clutch. I have it installed on my
    No.1 High Speed and it has proven to be an excellent system. A modified form would be easy to build and would eliminate
    the top heavy motor mount.

    Hendeyman

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