Hendey T and G part needed - Coil

I think Pete Shapeaholic or someone else might have an old drive
they took out. I am looking for the 230v DC solenoid coil (or 2)
from the Reliance drive control. It has a coil on the Forward
and one on the Reverse contactors. They are Arrow Hart brand
contactors. I looked on the internet and ebay for the coil, and
they are hard to identify. My forward coil burned out while I
was running the lathe. Smoke came out. What happened, is the
screw terminals are just brass tabs, bent around pieces of
cardboard, and taped on to the varnish wire wound coil.
A piece of the brass tab rubbed through the tape insulation
and shorted out the winding. I measured the wire and it is .006"
diameter. Would be really fussy to rewind. I calculate the coil
as about a mile of wire on it (really, 5000 feet)......
So would like to see if any of you have a spare coil or 2.
These screw terminals are SO FRAGILE. I am so careful working
with these coils now, knowing how they are built. Word to the
wise, just snug the wire screws with the screwdriver. All that
is holding them together is tape and varnish. Flying leads type
of coil construction is so much better than these screw terminals.
Anyhow, anyone got any A-H & H 230vDC coils ? DC coils do not have
the copper shading pole like DC coils. Thanks.

---Doozer

Another brand of contactor would be fine.
I think the 230v DC coil is hard to find,
and it is a really big contactor, like a
NEMA 2 size I think. I thought I remember
someone who was either parting out a T&G
or had 2 and made one, and therefor had
some spare parts.
I was thinking of converting both the Fwd
and Rev contactors to use small Bimba air
cylinders to activate them. More complicated
but kinda cool if you like mechanical things.
I was also thinking of adding an air cylinder
to the leadscrew dog clutch lever, so I
could have electric kick out switches to
drop the threading or power feed cleanly.
Ahhh priorities.

--Doozer

So you are right, it does not have to be a 230vDC coil,
it can even be a newer contactor. For sure.
But replacing the contactor or tracing back the Fwd Stop Rev
switch wires and re-connecting for a different voltage means
disecting EVERYTHING. Why is that a problem ? ? ?
Because I am a little nuts. Because this control cabinet
is made with solid core copper wire. It has 90° bends in
the wires, and they are laid out perfect as a picture.
Very artfully done, truly wired by a craftsman, a person
at the top of their profession. I would have to disturb
all this if I were to re-wire and re-configure this.
I do have the option of converting to this Minarik SCR
drive that I have, in which case I would be throwing out
basically everything. Artfully done wire bending and all.
So it boils down to I AM NUTS seems to be the common denominator
for not doing these things. Just hoping to find a replacement
coil or 2. But you are right, a few ways to make it work.
Just looking for the least invasive option first.
Kinda like personal health care.

-----Doozer

I don't think it is nuts...... seems reasonable.

hi doozer i have recently been through the original coil syndrome myself on a 3 phase 1950s compressor.after running around the planet on the internet nobody could supply the coil and that was all i needed. very frustrating.out of desperation i found a young bloke who rewound the 9000 turns of fine copper wire and the job was done.this does not help you ,, as i am in oz but sometimes the rewind is not as painful as the searching.good luck .

This is the drive I have.
XL3300A
It clearly lists the specification as
240v DC output.



It was a trial evaluation unit from Dan Schnabel
the general manager of the company. I was explaining
that I wanted to do the Hendey T&G conversion and he
offered one to me, claiming personally that it would
run my 3hp 230v DC motor. It is PWM but I think I
need a Variac or a smaller simple DC drive and do
manual field weakening.

---Doozer

thermite said:

That's a joke, right?

You have ANY idea how FAST we OLD Skewl telco hands can run those lovely harnesses down a whole damned ROW of rack cabinets in waxed linen lacing. open them up. DO it again. You have a high standard right in your face? Uphold it!

Or update the contactor, do yer duty as to wiring neatly.. it isn't really rocket insemination.....

.. and "Run what you got".

Click to expand...

Well I am not exactly an old TelCo hand, but I was taught by some.
For a time, I worked at MOOG Inc in East Aurora (Elma?) NY.
I worked in plant 15B, the rides department. Actually it was
steel stores and Motion Simulator Platforms Division.
The HydroPoint boys were in the next building, down the street.
Anyhow I built avionics cabinets for the motion platforms.
Some were for flight simulators, some went to Body Wars ride
at DisneyLand and Spiderman at Universal Studios.
One had a Mack R model truck cab on it for testing at the
Milestrip Rd plant. One had a Cesna airplane cab on it.
That one ended up at Buff State College. Anyhow, I used to
do the 90° wire loom bends for the avionics cabinets. They
never rushed you at MOOG, just take your time and make it
look right was the atmosphere there. I also soldered many
Amphenol plugs. I have some solder boards in outer space
satellites. I did not know all the details. Some ITAR stuff.
So I have done and can make wires look neat as the Hendey boys
did it. I just want a freaking coil. I have so many things
to do for my shop and home and land and trucks. I spend way
too much time pud pullin on the internet talking about coils
and lathes, I just want a simple fix for once. I re-engineer
freaking everything I touch. My hair is getting grey, people
annoy me more, but I am getting better at ignoring them.
I need a vacation (to look at machines) that I should not
look at. Should be looking at loose women. Not sure which is a
better bang for the buck. I guess you gotta weight short or
long term goals, don't ya know.

--Doozer

JST said:

I don't think it is nuts...... seems reasonable.

Click to expand...

Thx Jer.

-D

What do you mean I have no GAIN?
I realize I still need reversing contactors
because it is only a One-quadrant drive,
which I believe means non-regenerative and
non-electrically reversing. Non-isolated
means what? If the motor shorts, it the short
travels through ground instead of DC negative?
Have you bought this drive and tried it and had
to return it 3 times? What do you mean the maker
shut down ? Minarik was bought by American Control
Electronics recently. Is that what you mean?
I assure you, we still by product from them.

----Doozer

That drive looks like it will do the 3 HP. Check your motor current, the limit on the drive is 15A. Current is a better determinant than power with DC drives, just as with VFDs.

I prefer, in both cases, to have a little cushion over the FLA, just for the "stuff happens" factor. But that 15A at 230V is over 3 kW, so the cushion appears to be present if the 15A is OK for the motor.

The obvious "Gain" is in having variable speed, pretty much like having a VFD. That's the only reason for installing a drive like that.

BTW, the switching frequency is stated as 22 kHz, not 40. Non-reversing is fine, just means you may not be able to plug reverse it.

Electrolytic caps? Sure... common parts, used for decades, and if properly rated, can last tens of thousands of usage hours at max device power.

Non-isolated means the output is directly connected to the input.... no transformer or other isolation aside from the active parts. It's really not an issue, just a reminder that the motor is still at line potential.

There IS an issue that deserves mention.... AC contactors and DC contactors are NOT the same. A DC contactor is rated to stand a good deal more arcing than an AC version, because with AC the arc is extinguished every half cycle. DC just keeps burning the contacts. DC contactors may open wider, and can even have magnetic blowout features, although 3 HP is at the low end of that need.

It can be quite a light show, especially if there is a failure of the control circuit, and a following non-DC-rated contactor is used to open the circuit. I have seen the results, which can be just a lump of metal where the contacts were.

This is important because the reversing contactors are on the DC output side, and unless DC rated, should be used only to change over at zero current flow. Even if they are not destroyed (which is unlikely unless other failures occur), there can be one-way material transfer between contacts, building up peaks on one. There can also be early failures due to contact welding, etc.

thermite said:

.....................

DC contact life is no biggie if the source is a 1Q solid-state DC drive.

...................

Click to expand...

Source? Reasoning?

Contactors on the DC side are at risk if not rated for it. They may be AC contactors used well below their AC ratings for DC, and be "rated" for it even if that is not printed anywhere. But you won't "know" unless you see the rating in a data sheet.

I've seen the results of "that oughtta be good enough" several times.................