Hendey Tool and Gage PIV drive repair

All,

A few months back I managed to score a Hendey T&G with a mechanical PIV drive, serial number 31668. I bought the lathe based on pictures I'd seen and the word of the gentleman that is was working for him, and he'd been using it to make parts.

Well, it may have been working for him, but... I cant imagine it was working well. The original PIV drive had been destroyed, the sheaves, which are the two opposing cones that the drive chain rides between had been changed to smooth CVT type cone and a rubber belt used instead of the normal chain.

The original drive was probably beyond repair, and the prices I received from a few online PIV specialty shops for parts was ah... prohibitive. So, being stubborn enough to want to see this done correctly, and restored to an original set-up I resolved to find another PIV drive. I will attach photos and progress, so stay tuned.

M.Latham said:

So, being stubborn enough to want to see this done correctly, and restored to an original set-up I resolved to find another PIV drive. I will attach photos and progress, so stay tuned.

Click to expand...

As you have the housing, and "enough" of the original cones to grok the size, I submit one "could" make new ones. That is, of course TWO sets, input and output, each matched.

The drive chain/belt is a whole 'nuther animal. Pretty wel have to buy that, not DIY it. They have LOTS of (identical) parts. I'd guess punch-press work for the OEM.

The other option would be a "proper" Reeves or variator drive, rather than the present kludged "sort-of" one.

Far more lathes used those than PIV drives.

Not just the several hundred Schaublins. 30 or 40 thousand French & Japanese built Cazeneuves as well as several decent Drillpresses (Clausing, Powermatic...) and a lot of "legendary" DP, too. Eg: Several of the Alzmetall line. Alzmetall HAD previously used PIV Werner-Reimers drives. My 1950'ish AB5/S, to name one.

I'll be watching with interest, as that one is not at all easy to convert away from PIV drive.

Please do keep us up to date, and thanks in advance.

Bill

First I had to find a PIV close as possible to the original specs, which was actually an interesting undertaking, as I discovered. No two Hendey lathes equipped with a PIV are exactly the same. I do not know much about this drive system, but this sort of surprised me. My lathe was equipped with a drive that produced 2hp at 1720 rpm, so the search was on to find a matching PIV of the same rough vintage, and same speed and horsepower specs.

Luckily I did, and close too! Both my data plate the the donor drive attached....

M.Latham said:

First I had to find a PIV close as possible to the original specs, which was actually an interesting undertaking, as I discovered. No two Hendey lathes equipped with a PIV are exactly the same. I do not know much about this drive system, but this sort of surprised me. My lathe was equipped with a drive that produced 2hp at 1720 rpm, so the search was on to find a matching PIV of the same rough vintage, and same speed and horsepower specs.

Luckily I did, and close too! Both my data plate the the donor drive attached....

Click to expand...

Lucky, indeed! Even the same Link-Belt tribe. Fairchild (Hiller?) was another maker.

One hopes, of course, that the "donor" is in decent working order and can be swapped-in as an intact unit.

BTW: If not, and a "Plan C" ends up needing to go onto your dance card, I have a "spare " Reliance RPM III Type T 2 HP Dee Cee motor that can operate off 230 VAC with an inexpensive KB-Penta drive.

No boost transformer needed. It is 180 VDC wound.

I thought this was fairly close in size and ratings.

But.

My drive is a V-1-50, the "V" stands for Vertical, this unit is an H-1-50 so its a horizontal. Ok, so how hard could it be to switch the guts from one to the other?

I'd like to point out at this time I have never worked on a PIV drive of any type before. So i decided to dig into it.

The new unit...

M.Latham said:

I thought this was fairly close in size and ratings.

But.

My drive is a V-1-50, the "V" stands for Vertical, this unit is an H-1-50 so its a horizontal. Ok, so how hard could it be to switch the guts from one to the other?

Click to expand...

The AB5/S unit (7 HP) is "built in" to the head casting of the DP. I have been HOPING to NOT have to work on it, but WTH - the lube was drained and saved for transport, and four hex bolts should get the inspection & adjustment cover off, so might be a good time to follow-along as you are doing your one.

ISTR TRBoatworks DID rebuild the one on his Hendey T&G, and very well, as it is a smooth and quiet-running lathe.

I'd like to point out at this time I have never worked on a PIV drive of any type before. So i decided to dig into it.

Click to expand...

Nor I. Yet. Just gathering such data as I could find.

Plenty of Reeves drives & variants, though. I have three of those, plus a "cousin" - under a bespoke Cazeneuve patent that is neither "quite" a Klopp Variator nor a Reeves - on the HBX-360-BC to deal with.

Lemee find a stepladder, strong light, and my Metric hex goods.

Size of the access hole, I'm not too hopeful as to photo quality. My one appears to have to come out the TOP of the AB5/S.

OK, a few problems. The new unit as I've said is a horizontal. It also has the power shafts on one side as opposed to my unit that has the shafts, left and right. So I had to flip one of them. and the new unit had an updated chain tension unit, which is cast into the frame of the drive, my unit cannot use. So I needed to swap my chain tension system into the donor drive guts. Also I had to hope that the chain tension "shoes" would be able to drop in as needed.

OK, finished up today. Everything went well, surprisingly all the dimensions were the same on all components. Figuring out how to get the spring loaded chain tensioners into place, and then out of the way enough to drop the assembly into place took a little head scratching. I couldn't figure any other way to "press" the bearings into place other than letting the slow steady pressure of the SHCS when it was put together.

I have a few questions if anyone can help.

It seems to me that I should set the speed on the control wheel to its lowest setting, which is 40rpm in back gear. I have manually set the PIV to it's lowest setting. Does this seem like a good place to start? The drive train uses several different shafts and pulleys to transmit power to the spindle, what rpm should I be looking for at the linkage from the drive?

This new "unit" transmits 2.7hp at 1720rpm where the old unit transmits 2hp at the the same rpm, what physically controls this? Sheave angle? chain length? Can I lower the HP?

M.Latham said:

This new "unit" transmits 2.7hp at 1720rpm where the old unit transmits 2hp at the the same rpm, what physically controls this? Sheave angle? chain length? Can I lower the HP?

Click to expand...

There is nothing to change- those are the maximum ratings. If you did not increase the size of the motor, you don't have any more HP than you did before.

allan

M.Latham said:

OK, finished up today. Everything went well, surprisingly all the dimensions were the same on all components.
.

Click to expand...

Except, "maybe" the chain used. As you do not have the OEM one to measure.

.
what rpm should I be looking for at the linkage from the drive?

Click to expand...

"Stock" or OEM RPM. If the dimensions were "the same?"... One presumes the min/max ratios are the same as well.

This new "unit" transmits 2.7hp at 1720rpm where the old unit transmits 2hp at the the same rpm, what physically controls this? Sheave angle? chain length? Can I lower the HP?

Click to expand...

I'd guess the 35% upgrade to be a stronger - AND/OR/ELSE larger diameter - pin material in the chain.

A plus, either way, as it could give you a longevity boost, and that, too, is a "nice to have" when reliant on used components.