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Hendeyman Information Request: T&G 9x18 S/N 36734

Straightedge

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Location
Germany/California
Hi Hendeyman,
Thanks for returning my call this evening and apologies for my hit-and-miss cell reception. Could you please give us the history for #36734?

Also, it would be interesting to know a few things about the history of the tool & gagemaker's lathe, like when the first one was built, how many were produced in total, when the mechanical reducer drive was replaced with the motor controls, and when the 9x18 was replaced by the 9x24.

Thanks for providing us with the provenance of these machines. Look forward to talking again soon!
Tom
 
Does the Tool & Gauge use 6H collets?

Tom,

One interesting point, and maybe hendeyman can verify...does the T&G in fact use the 6H collet?

I have asked about this in the past, trying to figure out which Hendey used the 6H, but never saw an answer.

I believe, per the U.K. lathe site that this *might* be the lathe that uses it. :)
 
If I could tag along- I have the same question for T&G serial #30955

The T&G has a M5 nose with adaptor to 6H thought the collets in mine are shorter than the Rivett collets as I found out when I tried to buy a extra.

hendeycollet.jpg

Need a 1/16" collet Alan?
 
With the amount of light I had yesterday, I didn't notice any markings on the collets regarding whether they're 6H or not. They're bigger than 5c, that's certain.

One other question for Hendeyman: The bed ways on #36734 were scraped, not ground. The copy of the Hendey 9x24 T&G catalog that I have (number 924-952) says right on the cover "featuring hardended and precision ground bed ways." Do we know circa what year or s/n that transition was made?
 
If I could tag along- I have the same question for T&G serial #30955

The T&G has a M5 nose with adaptor to 6H thought the collets in mine are shorter than the Rivett collets as I found out when I tried to buy a extra.

View attachment 121888

Need a 1/16" collet Alan?

I would take it, but I have more questions now...the 6H I have is almost identical to the 6R. I have 1 6H collet.

However, it is not short like the one on the right above. It is ALMOST the same length as my 6R collets.

That only has to do with the length of the tube though, so with a longer tube, providing the taper fits into the spindle, the 6R would still work, as a normal 6H would, AFAICT.

If there is a MT5->6H sleeve for the headstock, that means that sleeve is the key to being able to use 6H/6R collets. There is also a 6L collet that was used on LeBlond I believe, but I have never seen one so I don't know if they are the same or not.

I do know that the 6H collet I have works in my 6R taper (same thread on the collet). I can take a picture of two of them later, but they are almost identical to each other, unlike Thomas' picture above.

All that said, I think one can make an argument that it makes more sense to turn a MT5->5C sleeve, that is what Halcohead is doing with his Rivett (6R->5C sleeve), so he can use 5C collets in the spindle nose. That is a good idea to ponder as 5C collets are common as dirt. My $64k question is, do either of you have the MT5->6H sleeve ?

Cheers,
Alan
 
Yes to that- I have what Tony cites as the standard set of adaptor and 15 collets.

Ok, you have the collets. Tom mentioned he is definitely missing some.

I have about 20 collets (6R) that range from 1/8" - 9/16", which is in addition to an almost complete set of 1/32" - 1-1/8" for my Rivett. I'm only missing the 1/64th I think, not that I would ever need it...

I don't know if these would work in the T&G without cutting the tube down. The 5MT->5C sleeve would be a good alternative to make youself, as Halcohead is doing.

Cheers,
Alan
 
old-school:

No problem with the phone call, it is just the curse of the modern cell phone age. I have noticed that since you posted your request for information, there have been several other Forum members with questions. Because of time constraints I may not be able to answer all of the questions in one session, the rest may have to wait until this evening.

As I mentioned to you during our phone conversation, the order number for this lathe is seriously out of sequence and would require extra research to determine the cause, therefore, I will give the history of the machine and then
an explanation of the order number problem. Hendey lathe #36734, a 9 x 18 inch T & G Lathe, was one of two T&G lathes (the other lathe was #36619) odered by the same customer on January 29, 1946. The original owner was
the New York Shipbuilding Corporation, a Navy Contractor, hence the anchor next to the serial number. Keep the original owner's name in mind, it will come up during the order number explanation. The original motor was a
Frame 204, 1-1/2HP, 1800RPM, 440Volts, 60 Cycles, 3 Phase. Spindle speeds were 40RPM - 2000RPM. You mentioned that it did not use the M-G set drive, but used the PIV Drive System, which should not have been used on a
lathe built in 1946. It was scheduled for completion during the third week of July 1946. Now to try to explain the anomalies. One more thing, these were the last 9x18 T&G lathes built or sold by Hendey, and may be NOS lathes.

I suspected a cancellation problem caused the order number to be out of sequence and I was correct, but what a mess. Because of the chaos caused during the war, cancellations were common, but this is more convoluted than
most. Here is the timeline regarding your lathe, starting on January 29, 1946 and working backwards, enjoy the ride.

Order Number 48415 (should have been 48740) - January 29, 1946 - New York Shipbuilding Corporation - 9x18 Toolmakers Lathe - Serial # 36734
Order Number 48415 (changed to 48035 ) - January 30, 1945 - Aircraft Radio Corporation - 9x18 Toolmakers Lathe - Serial # 36522
Order Number 48035 (changed to 47640 ) - July 27, 1944 -National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics - 9x18 Toolmaker Lathe - Serial #36295
Order Number 47640 (changed to 48035,
then changed to 48415) - May 14, 1943 - New York Shipbuilding Corporation - 9x18 Toolmakers Lathe - Serial # none assigned ORDER CANCELLED

The T&G Lathe was inspired by the success of the #1 High Speed Lathe with its operating speeds of up to 5000RPM. During the Depression, Hendey introduced four new machines that quickly boosted business. They were:
The #1 High Speed Lathe, the #3 High Speed Lathe, the 4C Manufacturing Lathe and the 12 inch High Speed Shaper. The possibility of a new type of Hendey Lathe being built was leaked to the Selling Agents in December 1938
or January 1939. Agents were quoting prices for a lathe that had not yet been built. On March 2, 1939, F.J. McCarty, Sales Manager for Hendey, sent a memo to all Selling Agents apologizing for not being able to send them a
drawing of the new lathe because as fast as the Drawing Office produced the design it had to be redrawn because of last minute changes. The suggested sell price at that time was to be $2000 and that was to include the Taper
Attachment and the Drawing-in Attachment. Shortly after the lathe was introduced, these two attachments were sold separately. He went on to remind all agents that the No.6 and No.7 Collets were to be furnished at extra cost.
Completion date for the Sample (the Hendey term for prototype) was to be May 1939 and it was assigned Serial Number 30012. The Spindle Taper was No.5 Morse Taper. By May 1, 1946, the selling price for the 9x24 T&G Lathe
was $4008.

As time has permitted, I have been working on a list of the total number of T&G Lathes that were built of both sizes, 9x18 and 9x24. I started with the last T&G built and worked my way back, at present I am at April 1941. With
238 lathes built during that period, of which 55 were 9x18. The first 24 inch bed model, that I have found any record of, was built during mid-May 1941, Serial Number 31519 and was ordered by the National Advisory Committee
for Aeronautics. All of the lathes on the list are based on serial numbers and not order numbers for oblivious reasons. The remaining two years of production are most likely the 9x18 size lathe. I will have to research when the change took place from mechanical to the electrical drive system, but I would think sometime around 1942. When figuring total production records of T&G Lathes, don't forget the 82 machines built by Barber Colman, all with some
sort of electronic drive. The induction hardened and ground beds were introduced in 1947. The catalog you quoted is September 1952. The same statement appears on the June 1948 catalog, but not of the September 1946 catalog.
The covers of all three catalogs are the same.

Hendeyman

Hendeyman
 
Thanks, Hendeyman, for putting the epic and convoluted history of this machine to print. It's hard to believe that records with this level of detail from a defunct company survive and are accessible through you. How you keep tabs on all this, I have no idea, but I appreciate you bringing this machine's strange beginnings to light. Whether this was a NOS lathe when it was delivered or not, would this also be the last (or highest S/N) lathe delivered with the PIV drive? And what does PIV stand for anyway?

I took delivery unexpectedly quickly, (consonant with the philosophy of my deceased acquaintance Burt B.: Buy the best...pay cash...take delivery) via a helpful gent from the south bay who normally deals with Hardinge and 10EE lathes. As he is technically retired, it took less than 5 hours from the time I gave him the go-ahead before this was delivered to Napa! John, if you read this: THANKS!

Now that I have it, I looked at the collets. They are indeed 6H. While it looked like several collets were missing, it has every collet from 1/8 through 3/4 by 64ths and none greater than 3/4. Besides the 3/4" collet, which has a badly-marred face, all the others appear to be in good condition.

Also, the rust on the machine and bed in particular does seem to react well to the dull scraper technique made famous by John Oder's G-K project. I tried this on a few square inches and it pushes right off.

Tom
 
I have wanted T&G for awhile congrats. I have a full set of 6h collets in 32ths that i would sell for 100 plus shipping.

That's an excellent offer, someone should take you up on that. I wouldn't sell/trade my 20 collets for that, I'd keep them for spares. A full set is about 72 of them.

EDIT: Wow, a lot of them on ebay listed really cheap, $3.69/each and several small lot sets for $19.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...0.H0.X+6H+collet&_nkw=+6H+collet&_sacat=92084

Cheers,
Alan
 
I will have to double tomorrow check see what i have I know it is pretty complete. I havent looked at them for a couple of years.
 
The T&G Lathe was inspired by the success of the #1 High Speed Lathe with its operating speeds of up to 5000RPM. During the Depression, Hendey introduced four new machines that quickly boosted business. They were:
The #1 High Speed Lathe, the #3 High Speed Lathe, the 4C Manufacturing Lathe and the 12 inch High Speed Shaper.

Hendeyman,

Just curious if there is any info on these high speed lathes? That must have been a very expensive machines to get that type of speed in those days.

Those must have had special bearings in them ???

You're always full of fascinating nuggets... :)

Cheers,
Alan
 
Hi Hendeyman.. I'm looking at buying a hendey 12 by 30 lathe. It needs some repair. can u help me with info? Ser #30247-222.
Also, I would love to find a repair manual.

Tks for your help.
 
Last edited:
The PIV stands for Positive Infinite Variable speed drive.It is basically a Reeves/Salisbury type drive that doesn't slip.The metal chain has links made up of sliding leaves that interlock with the splined faces of the pulleys,hence no slip.Early models had links made of maple wood blocks.
 
Claud:

The Serial Number Card for Hendey lathe No. 30247 was misfiled at Aable Machine Tool Company sometime in the early 1990s, so I can't tell
you the name of the original owner. The records indicate that it was scheduled for completion during the first week of November 1939. The
extra 222 is not part of the Serial Number and is not shown in the records, but could have been requested by the customer. The amount of
Patterns, Castings and Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe is very limited, but all of the original drawings are still in the
files, so parts can be made if required. I still have copies of the original Parts Book for sale. The Operator's Manual is available as
a free download on this forum thanks to Greg Menke. As John Oder has stated Hendey did not issue a Repair Manual, if you had problems
with any Hendey machine your company would have a Service Engineer come to your shop to make the necessary repairs. Keep in mind, that
it was extremely rare for an individual to buy any Hendey machine because of the expense, so "home" repairs were not a consideration.

Hendeyman
 








 
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