Horizontal Jig Borer vs HBM
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  1. #1
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    Default Horizontal Jig Borer vs HBM

    I've got my eye out for a WWII vintage HBM in the 14000 lb or under range. In the course of my study i ran across a dixi 60 of horizontal jig borer on ebay. While the asking price is well out of my budget, i can't help but wonder if a horizontal borer would be a viable or attractive alternative to an HBM. The footprint looks comparable although the work envelope looks to be smaller. These things come with tail stocks so am i correct is assuming they can do line boring operations? I assume a principle difference is the jig borers will have more precise lead-screws yes?

    I'd be interested to understand other differences such as work capacity, tooling availability, versatility in operations etc.

    And by the way, if anyone has a WWII-ish HBM in the 14000 lb or under range they would like to move on to a different owner please let me know.

    Thanks,

    [email protected]

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    P&W made hundreds of Jig Bores (up to 18 tons) where the screws only moved things around - the preciseness of that moving was via "end measures" and "tenth" indicators. Don't know how the Dixi managed.

    Neat story from 1928

    8-pieces-iron.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by marka12161 View Post
    I've got my eye out for a WWII vintage HBM in the 14000 lb or under range. In the course of my study i ran across a dixi 60 of horizontal jig borer on ebay. While the asking price is well out of my budget, i can't help but wonder if a horizontal borer would be a viable or attractive alternative to an HBM. The footprint looks comparable although the work envelope looks to be smaller. These things come with tail stocks so am i correct is assuming they can do line boring operations? I assume a principle difference is the jig borers will have more precise lead-screws yes?

    I'd be interested to understand other differences such as work capacity, tooling availability, versatility in operations etc.

    And by the way, if anyone has a WWII-ish HBM in the 14000 lb or under range they would like to move on to a different owner please let me know.

    Thanks,

    [email protected]
    .
    many old machines have hugh vast large amounts of wear. doesnt matter if when new it could hold .0001" tolerance. obviously some old machines might have trouble holding a .0100" tolerance.
    .
    many many old machines need new ball screws or lead screws with new bearings. many need to be custom made parts assuming can find a part drawing for it. lack of repair manuals for machine and detailed part drawings can be a big big problem. having replacement parts made can be a big expensive problem.
    .
    many parts made in quantity are cheap but custom made could easily be 10x to 1000x more in cost. and thats no exaggeration.

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    "Dixi " were a sort of horizontal version of the renown "SIP " vertical jig borer. They were both very high precision machines. A sort of more precise " DeVlieg " jig mill. I only came across a couple of " Dixi " Hor bores in all my travels. They were also very expensive.

    It's horses for courses, if you want to do smaller, high precision components the " Dixi " is what you want. If want to do the usual jobbing shop variety of components a conventional Hor bore is what you need.

    If you do want to do jobbing shop work look for a machine with a built in facing slide and an accurate revolving top table. Lot's of people run after machines with the outer steady for line boring but without the requisite boring bars they are just a very good boat anchor.

    Regards Tyrone.

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  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    P&W made hundreds of Jig Bores (up to 18 tons) where the screws only moved things around - the preciseness of that moving was via "end measures" and "tenth" indicators. Don't know how the Dixi managed.

    Neat story from 1928

    8-pieces-iron.jpg
    My grandfather had 2 Union HBMs that used the same setup, precision length rods and indicators on the end. The Rods would be placed in a precision V and then youd set the indicator off them.

    I think the Dixi's used optical scales though.

    I agree with Tyrone on the Facing head for jobbing work, though it's pretty uncommon approach in the states by and large, but it makes life so much easier (and cheaper) if you have a solid facing slide and snout bars.

    The boring bars for the tailstock are also pretty critical, but only if you line bore, theres quite afew of them available in some states though (Texas being where I've bought mine from) most used dealers will grab them as open lots then sell them off, so even if you didnt get bars with the machine you should be able to find some.


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