how did one use old hand cranked bench grinders?

Luke Rickert · Mar 6, 2017

I have a cool old french tool catalog from 1933. Among the items offered are these bench grinders with up to 200mm wheels (near 8 inches)

Does anyone know how you were supposed to operate them? Do you somehow you hold the item you are grinding the in the left hand and turn the crank with the right or did you apprentice turn the crank while the other person did the grinding? There is one on another page that has a foot peddle that makes much more sense but clearly they thought this was an acceptable solution as well.

thanks

Luke

Sean the Dog · Mar 6, 2017

Just wondering if there could be a flywheel involved... Turn the crank to build up speed and let momentum do the rest until the wheel slows too much.

Nothing more than a brainfart.

Ries · Mar 6, 2017

they are not direct drive, so they keep spinning even when you are not cranking. they freewheel, like a bike. Fair amount of rotating mass on the stone alone.
that said, they werent good for all day grinding of heavy stuff- they were touch up grinders.

The powered grinding wheel was in use as long ago as the 1500s, for tool and weapon sharpening. Water powered, at first.
So any pro who has needed to grind big stuff for hours, has had the option to do so without cranking for 500 years.

Also- labor used to be basically free. Apprentices were common in all shops. The average blacksmith shop would have had 2 or 3, ready and waiting to turn cranks, operate bellows, or strike with big hammers.

Larry Dickman · Mar 6, 2017

My brother has one, and it uses momentum. Once you crank it up, it will spin for quite a while.

Luke Rickert · Mar 6, 2017

I was thinking about the flywheel effect and they driven by a gearbox so you could get some good speed but it seems like it wouldn't do much grinding at all between cranking but yes as a touch up grinder I suppose.

Speaking of flywheels they also had these drill presses:

Stradbash · Mar 6, 2017

I used to own one. Bought it new in the 70's and used it to sharpen hand tools while in school. I usually held the tool in my left hand and cranked with the right. I certainly do better work with my electric grinder now, but it was the right tool for the time when I didn't have access to a non people powered one.
I had a hand crank drill press at the same time. Two speed ratios and variable downfeed pressure!

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DDoug · Mar 6, 2017

One word ...."Minions"....

wdTom · Mar 6, 2017

Isn't that one reason they had apprentices?

L Vanice · Mar 6, 2017

I lived in a four-unit apartment building in 1951-3. It had a garage with a tiny workshop area that included a bench with a hand crank grinder provided by the building owner. That would have been the first grinder I ever saw and used. It was entirely suited to small jobs like sharpening kitchen knives and scissors. I did not have any other use for it at the time. I had no interest in having one in my new workshop in our newly-built home, but went straight to power tools.

Larry

Scottl · Mar 6, 2017

As a kid I inherited one from my carpenter grandfather and they were fine for touching up edges. The large gear acted like a flywheel so it was crank it up to speed and let go, take a light pass, and repeat. They are surprisingly efficient.

9100 · Mar 6, 2017

In areas without suitable rivers or wind, enslaving people or animals has been the primary motive power for thousands of years. While I condone slavery of animals in limited circumstances and of people not at all, it is a little more understandable when it is the only game in town. One of my favorites, in which the workers apparently were paid, not forced, is the cranes on the Amsterdam waterfront shown in Dutch painters works. Men got in big hamster wheels and ran to hoist cargo.

When I was about ten, a neighbor had a small hand cranked grinder with a large gear driving a pinion on the wheel's shaft. The wheel was only about 4" or 5" inches by 1/2" and had little inertia. His son and I tried one cranking and the other holding the tool but we never achieved anything usable. The foot powered ones with a large white wheel I used to see on farms were a lot more practical.

Bill

JST · Mar 6, 2017

I've used the little ones that clamp on the bench and have 5 or 6 inch wheels. They work fine, but usually slowly. Getting an effective surface speed is just not part of the drill with those.

Biggest problem aside from surface speed is holding the part steady while you crank. It is an acquired skill.....

Large ones, like the old 3 foot sandstone wheels and larger ones, would be water powered if possible, and if not, apprentice powered.. I think I have seen foot powered as well. Those would have some inertia and would run for a bit after cranking up to speed, even when grinding.

awander · Mar 6, 2017

I have one of those small hand-cranked grinding wheels. It is difficult to get much work done using only inertia; it spins for a while with no load, but as soon as you start to grind, the wheel slows very quickly to a stop.. And it is also hard to hold the work how you want it if you are also cranking.

blcksmth · Mar 6, 2017

I have a hand powered grinder in my blacksmith shop. It blends in with the hand powered post drills and files. My grandfather had several on the farm. They work quite well for small jobs but they do require some manual dexterity.

Bob
WB8NQW

magneticanomaly · Mar 6, 2017

I use one as a speed-up gearbox to drive a blower for a forge. Very hard to hold steady enough to do good sharpening while cranking with the other hand.

OTOH, the sandstone treadle-powered bicycle-seated grinders can do excellent work. I have even sharpened twist drills on mine, as well as knives and scissors.. Takes practice to hold steadily while pedalling.

rusty old tools · Mar 6, 2017

I have a keystone "railroad tool grinder" on my bench, pretty good hand crank grinder imho, use it frequently for touch ups on everything from lathe tools to kitchen knives, it will take a decent sized wheel (about 8"). I keep it cranking with the right hand and grind with the left, takes some getting used to but I like it, there is no coasting it's all geared together, one large gear and a pinion on the spindle. They are good for what they are, not for heavy grinding, I have an electric one for that.

franco · Mar 6, 2017

My father had a 6" one in his home shop. It had a cast extension on the left side tool rest to give the correct angle for sharpening carbon tool steel drills on the side of the wheel, which did not work particularly well. As others have said, you get used to cranking with the right hand and holding the workpiece in the left for rough work.

However, in 1948 he bought a small lathe, and grinding 1/4" HSS tools was a whole different story! It was painfully slow, and quite hard work, and we very quickly converted it to a crude foot treadle, which at least left both hands free to hold the tool. I quickly got used to working the treadle with my right leg while balancing on my left, but it was still very slow. When I complained about this he informed me that "it is good for the soul"!

As it happened, it did not take long to convince him after he had ground a couple of HSS tools himself to make a belt driven bench grinder, which served until 6" conventional bench grinders eventually became available at an affordable price.

franco

cyanidekid · Mar 6, 2017

I remember one that was in the carriage house at Pumpkin Hollow farm upstate NY, where I went to summer camp (think I was about 9-10). It was a free standing unit, 3 or 4 legs, with a seat and hand crank. It was highly geared and had a large wheel, 20" maybe?. it took a long time for a little boy to get it up to any speed, but, once spinning, it seemed to coast for a long time. I'm sure with just the inertia you could do some actual work on it. it made a wonderful whine, and I can, in retrospect, blame it for some of my machinery ailments...

I'd love to reconnect with the old girl..one of my first loves, clearly...

Sea Farmer · Mar 6, 2017

My grandfather's coat factory had several of the small 5- or 6" grinders mounted on cutting tables around the factory floor. They were used by the cutters to keep their scissors sharp. Someone else always turned the crank. The "cutters" were responsible for cutting the patterns out of bolts of raw material, and an important part of their job was to nest the various shapes required to make a coat, to minimize wasted material on the roll. My grandfather used to say that having skilled cutters was essential to making a profit.

"Cutters" were pretty high on the pecking order in old garment factories, so could always command lesser-skilled workers to perform the task. I used to love cranking those things for them when I was 5 or 6 years old and visiting the factory.

WoodBee · Mar 7, 2017

I have two of these grinders, both of Dutch manufacturers. I have never done much work on them, but both have the handles attached to the gearbox with a "sawtooth coupling". In this way the handle disconnects and stops spinning when you let go of it. I always assumed this was proof of the "spin it up and let go, then grind" way of sharpening. Needs a light touch when grinding and often responding the wheel. I think they are great for touching up edges, not so much for serious changing of shape. Mine have the guide for grinding drill bits too, never used those though.

Peter

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how did one use old hand cranked bench grinders?

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