I found most of an All American Die Filer (things that make you cry)

Well I went off to look at a vise from a Craigslist ad. In the garage across from a Bridgeport mill was the dirty clump of a machine. I knew from the belt cover that it was a All American Die Filer in a few pieces. Unfortunately the owner was tired of tripping over the table and threw it away a couple of month before. Things that make you want to cry. But the price was reasonable so I picked it up. I figured someone would need the parts.

After I got it home I detailed it with a toothbrush and a shop vacuum. What emerged was a reasonably nice machine as shown in the first three photos. A few rusty bits and in need of oil, but it did run. The rubber boot has a small tear. And it is missing the blower hose. But otherwise it is all there.

Now this puts me in a bit of a dilemma - I already have a pristine All American Die Filer as shown in the forth and fifth photos. Where as last night I was thinking of this as a parts donor, today I am wondering what are my options for table replacement.

I could:

1) try and find a factory table (very doubtful)
2) see if there is a small scroll saw table top that I could adapt
3) Find a blanchard ground piece of 10" x 10" x 3/8" or so thick steel and just make one.
4) Cast a new one (I have a model)

I am leaning towards option 3 as this would be a user machine. Any thoughts?

Before going farther I should probably go into the guts and see what condition they are it.

The pristine one has a serial number about 200 greater that the parts one I picked up. Interestingly the spring loaded top guide of the later one dies not have all the adjustments of the earlier one. I can see having very minor adjustments make the file go straight, but this one has 1"+ of travel and large angular rotation. This makes me wonder if I am missing something?

What is a little odd on the new filer is that the post that holds the guides is about 36" long. Why - I have no idea. I should probably cut it down to a more standard length.

I'd consider using the original table as a pattern and have a replacement table cast from it.

The parts filer would appear to be original, even though the table has "shrunk" a bit.

Mike

I wish I lived where it would be easy to drop an old casting off and have a new one moulded and made to it in a reasonable time for a cheap enough price to be worth the effort. I keep hearing about this process, but my luck with foundries has not been so convenient even on highly paid jobs. OK, well there is cattail foundry if you don't mind 2 ways cross country from CA....

I would fake-a-castingTM and be done with it on a Saturday, beholden to no one elses (greatly extended) time frame or delusions of value.



1/2" plate, 1/4" flange.







Small table could be done on a mill or small shaper. I made my first one on a shaper:

(outfeed table extension for a 12" jointer)



smt

+1 on faking the casting.

And why do people think you only have to have one of something?

Post the dimensions of that table. I might stumble onto an old Oliver you could use.

Paul

So what if you Fake a casting? It's going to be usable,and it'sd not a terribly valuable machine. Go for it. I love my die filers.

Pardon my ignorance but what did die filers get used on? Thanks, Jim

For filing the clearance angle on die blocks

As Mister Honey pointed out casting a copy is straight forward since shrinkage is probably not an issue. But my experience with casters is similar to what Stephan Thomas alluded to. For my day job we get expensive castings made from exotic materials, and the complete lack of care in handling the castings is terrible. So I am a bit leery of giving a casting house my existing not-replaceable table for a model.

Since this tool is a user, repurposing an existing table or machining a new one is probably the easiest option.

Antique Iron - the original die filer table top is about 10.5" square and about 1" thick on the outer lip. Please let me know if you have anything similar.

There are some smaller scroll saw cast iron tables that are 11" square and have stiffening ribs and reliefs in the right places, as shown in the attached picture. They do have the classic 2.5" hole in the center for an interchangeable round insert, but this may be an advantage for small files. Just drop in an insert with a smaller cutout for small parts. For $28 delivered, it may be a good way to go.

Otherwise, a 10" x 10" x 3/8" steel plate is probably a good starting point for my version of a "fake-a-castingTM". I wish I had a planer like Stephan Thomas for cleaning up the top. A really large fly cutter on a Wells Index 747 might work for a light finishing cut.

Gregoryd - I agree there no need to have just one of a particular tool. But if helps sometimes if you do not mention the actual total number of a particular tool in front of your wife. I made that mistake once with drill presses. Honestly - I do not pay much for those old classics and enjoy cleaning them up. And why should you stress over having to change tools in the chuck when you can have dedicated tools - I have one which is only used for countersinking and hole deburring. But after letting the number slip out to my wife, she spent the next six months amusingly asking folks "So... how many drill presses do you own?". No one she asked was even close. In retrospect is was pretty funny.

Thanks for the suggestions.

The other item I should also tackle is the lack of the blower hose on the die filer. As shown in the photo below, the original hose is hard for part of the run and transitions to a flexible metal hose that can be directed. Any suggestions on a source for this? I wonder if a flexible oil can spout could be used for the flexible end (with the appropriate sized hole in the nozzle) and graft in onto bent flared tubing?

Thanks

Look in McMaster. They have the old-time spiral flex coolant nozzles. I did not want to use one of the new "ball-joint" or "poppet" type coolant flex's on my 1943 LeBlond lathe, so checked McMaster. They have the flex hoses with NPT ends and nozzles. In the worst case, you ream the tip of a stock coolant flex hose to a known/straight diameter. Then, fit an orifice and set it with Loctite 603 (Cylindrical part setting compound). The orifice will provide a fine jet of air, and allow the blower/compressor on the die filer to keep up with the flowrate and provide enough of a jet to keep the filings blown clear.

Other thought: get a pump oil can with the old-style spiral-flex nozzle, and adapt it. It may mean making an adapter at the connection end, or soft-soldering an adapter on. Not sure how the spiral flex oil can nozzles were sealed, so would be real hesitant to apply heat, as for a silbrazed joint.

I've owned two of these little gems, one of the interesting things was the data plate. After the All American Tool & Mfg. Co. it says in small letters "not inc." I've never seen that before, someone advertising that they were not inc. Wonder why they did that?

How about a 10" x 10" piece of Dura Bar and machine up a replacement?

Rick

Ok, Maybe I just don't get it, but why do so many
of you guys love these die filers?
It is like they are a Harley or something.
(The love for Harleys is something I also do not understand).
Is it because a die filer is so stone simple, any half assed mechanic
can use one? Similar reason that anvils go for big bucks?!?
Help me understand this please.

--Doozer

I bought an All American die filer a couple of years ago but it looks totally different than yours. Mine doesn't have that second overarm assy. What is it's function?
Also, I'll have to check in the morning if it has a threaded hole on the side of the base for an air blower.
Mine is apparently also missing the belt cover.

crrmeyer said:

Gregoryd - I agree there no need to have just one of a particular tool. But if helps sometimes if you do not mention the actual total number of a particular tool in front of your wife. I made that mistake once with drill presses. Honestly - I do not pay much for those old classics and enjoy cleaning them up. And why should you stress over having to change tools in the chuck when you can have dedicated tools - I have one which is only used for countersinking and hole deburring. But after letting the number slip out to my wife, she spent the next six months amusingly asking folks "So... how many drill presses do you own?". No one she asked was even close. In retrospect is was pretty funny.

Click to expand...

Yeah, My wife boasts to her friends that she knows how to get me to admit how much of anything I have by overshooting - she did it to me with lathes. Went like this:
Her: "You have 8 lathes - why are you looking at lathes on ebay"
Me thinking I'm smart: "no I don't, I only have 5"
Her: "5 - I thought you only had 3!"
Me: stunned

Well I figured that one out - I picked up some silly methanol fueled racing kart today, and she asked me why i needed another since i had like 4. This time she undershot so I kept my mouth shut!

Is it because a die filer is so stone simple, any half assed mechanic
can use one?

Have you ever used one? On little tiny parts? It actually takes a bit of learning and skill before you can use one without the file ripping the part out of your fingers.

I have 3 die filers. The one I use the most is a Butterfly. I rigged a 1/2 H.P. DC motor onto it with a variable speed control. It completely changes the usefulness of the filer. Files are not meant to be used at the speeds these filers run in the first place. It wears the teeth off. Plus,the file going up and down too fast causes the work piece(usually fairly smallish) to be grabbed and slapped down on your finger tips.

I urge anyone who has a die filer to go to Surplus Sales and get a small motor with a speed control. The filer is SO MUCH better to use when you can slow it down to a reasonable speed.

Doozer: Anyone who hasn't used a die filer might not understand the beautiful,precision work that can be turned out on one. The vertical(or angled ) edges that have been filed look like they have been surface ground. They are wonderful for odd shaped or curved surfaces.

Maybe you should be rejoycing that you have everything but the table.

I was walking down the sidewalk when I met a man with one shoe.
I said looks like you're having a bad day you lost a shoe.
He says no I'm having a good day I found a shoe.

jealous! and LOL nomad