ID watchmaker's vise

Rickw55 · Jun 20, 2018

I recently acquired a small watchmaker's vise from a friend of mine. He had it attached to a all-steel work table in his back yard and it had been exposed to the weather for a while.It caught my eye, and I thought I'd seen a similar one here on the forum. So, I'm posting pictures to see if anyone could give me more information about it.
It measures about 7 inches long, 3-1/4 inches high, and the jaws are about 2-3/8 inches wide.It is marked on the front of the jaw. I can't make all of it out, but what I can see reads: "---- ENGLAND/D.H.P. 448443/324780 BOLEY"(in an arc.On the front of the vise screw is the letter "A" above and the numbers 36143 below.
Here are some pictures:

I know it says"BOLEY" on it, but was it actually made by Boley? The "Boley" marking looks different from other pictures I've seen online, and the marking "ENGLAND" is different. I thought Boley was a German company.
I would appreciate any information anyone could give me.
It's a great little vise. I soaked it in Kroil, and got it freed up. Now it opens and closes smoothly, with one finger.
Rick W

plannerpower · Jun 20, 2018

These are fairly common; many makers copied the original Leinen/Boley design. The original story is here;

Leinen lathes

We've discussed these vises more than once here; this is one instance;

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ckmakers-vise-boley-copy-english-vice-335249/

and I'm sure that you will find more if you search.

I remember because I have one and use it often; it is, if I remember correctly, marked Made In England with no mention of Boley.

PS. Here is another thread on these vises; whilst the photos have vanished, I remember it being about these vises because I posted a photo of mine.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ry/small-vise-id-115445/?highlight=boley+vise

sable · Jun 20, 2018

The stamping looks a bit "willy nilly" almost like someone was trying the stamps out ,maybe a maker of counterfeit tools ?

Nice little vice though ,would a watchmaker want knurled vice jaws ?

L Vanice · Jun 20, 2018

Here are examples of G. Boley (Boley Brothers) marks on the ends of watch lathe beds. The curved stamp is earlier than the straight stamp. The numbers are serial numbers. US law requires the country of origin to be stamped on foreign goods.

Larry

L Vanice · Jun 20, 2018

I have a Marshall (USA) copy of the Leinen vise and I have another copy with "Made in England" cast on the base.

Neither one requires the edge of the workbench top to have a notch cut in it, like the vise in post #1.

Yes, jeweler vises do have checkered steel jaws because they are mostly used to hold various tools like anvils and mainspring winders, not watch parts. It is easy enough to make copper jaw covers. I even have a couple of fancy hinged brass sub-jaws for holding tiny delicate things.

Larry

Rickw55 · Jun 21, 2018

Thanks for the info and the links.
I did see those posts on this forum about those other vises, but none of them match mine. Mine doesn't have lettering cast into it, and it's bigger than at least one of them.
The "Boley" trademark on my vise looks the same as on the lathe, but it was the "England" marking that puzzled me.
Rick

plannerpower · Jun 21, 2018

There seem to be myriad versions of this design; here is mine;

It doesn't have the brace that requires a slot in the bench.

The dimensions are the same as the one you have.

The only identification is "Made In England" cast on the body, This was confirmed when I broke the stud that retains the anvil; it is threaded 5/16 BSF.

The square-threaded screw looks very like 11 tpi.

Another difference to yours is the setscrew at the rear of the moving jaw; this retains the screw. I can't see that in your photos, perhaps it's painted over.

One common feature is the two shallow holes/dimples on the end of each jaw insert; I don't know if these have any purpose.

They are certainly nice vises and are a pleasure to use.

partsproduction · Jun 22, 2018

I collect them too, plus other interesting small vises, like a Prentiss that looks like a 50 lb bench vise but actually weighs around two lbs and has under 2" wide jaws, some with checkered jaws and some smooth faced.

I have a question about the small Boley vises though, many of them have two holes in the RH ends of adjacent jaws, as in post #7 (Two sets of holes). What are these sets of small holes used for? Since some have them but many don't is it correct that they are drilled by the end users?

partsproduction · Jun 22, 2018

Looking at the vises those holes could be considered to be at either the right side or the left side depending on which way you look at it. I assume the holes have something to do with jewelry or watch/clockmaking, maybe pins inset as provisional spanner drives?

plannerpower · Jun 22, 2018

The holes are on both sides of each jaw, ie eight holes total. In my vise they are about 2mm diameter and about 1mm deep; the bottoms are conical indicating that they have been drilled. I don't know what they are for.

L Vanice · Jun 22, 2018

plannerpower said:
The holes are on both sides of each jaw, ie eight holes total. In my vise they are about 2mm diameter and about 1mm deep; the bottoms are conical indicating that they have been drilled. I don't know what they are for.

I made sheet brass and copper jaw covers for my watch bench vises some decades ago. The most simple design covers have a habit of falling off the vise when the jaws are open. If one had little holes in the jaw ends, one could make punch marks in end pieces of the covers that would keep the covers in place until purposely pulled off. Larry

partsproduction · Jun 22, 2018

Some have one end only drilled, and most often just one hole on each jaw end on the RH end, that's been my observation but it may be wrong.

I just looked at all mine and none have any holes at all. Three are Boley types and one is that Prentiss jewelers vise.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ckmakers-vise-boley-copy-english-vice-335249/

Here's one with both ends of only the front jaw drilled,
FINELY CRAFTED Small Boley Pattern Bench Vise, Jeweler, Gunsmith, Germany - $18. | PicClick

plannerpower · Jun 22, 2018

The vise in the second link may have two holes in each jaw end; on the LH side, the rear-jaw holes seem to be filled with paint or debris;

The RH side is less-clear but the holes may also be filled; [url=https://postimages.org/]

Larry's idea of jaw-retainers seems likely.

plannerpower · Jun 22, 2018

Apologies for the dog's breakfast that the forum has made of my post; it's never done that before.

ManicMetalBasher · Jun 22, 2018

#8
I have never seen holes drilled In the end of the jaws of a new vice, however I have not seen many new vices.
I used them in vices that had this provision exactly as described in #11. Two holes are used to prevent your temporary
vice jaw from rotating.
If aluminium angle is used provide threaded holes where required and use cone point grub screws (or whatever they are called in North America) to retain the jaw.

partsproduction · Jun 23, 2018

Plannerpower, you did a great job of answering the OP's question, but the subject matter made me bring up my question which is closely related. How is that dog's breakfast? The OP, if he collects more of these fine little vises, may come upon some that have the holes.

plannerpower · Jun 24, 2018

The expression "dog's breakfast" means, in Australia at least "a mess". (New paragraph) I was referring to the present problems with the forum software which doesn't recognise the Enter command as a new paragraph. (New paragraph) I take care to format my posts to ensure readability so I use many short paragraphs rather than a few long ones. (New paragraph) The forum problem is being discussed at present; https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/attn-moderators-unable-edit-delete-posts-351805/ (New paragraph) I have inserted "new paragraph" where I intended to start a new paragraph; I will see if the forum problem has been fixed when I post this.

plannerpower · Jun 24, 2018

It's clear from the above that the forum problem has not yet been fixed; I'm sure that they are working on it.

Rickw55 · Jun 24, 2018

Thanks again to all who responded.
My vise does have the holes in the ends of the jaw inserts. There are two holes in each end. The photo is too dark so show it.
I don't know what they are for, but I like L Vanice's theory that they are for jaw inserts. They would certainly work for that, and if I keep the vise I'll make some jaw inserts and use the holes to hold them in place.
Thanks,
Rick

partsproduction · Jun 25, 2018

I guess I'll have to ask some jewelers about this. Sometimes the holes are actually drilled into the ends of the jaws, and sometimes into the cast iron behind the jaws.

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