Images of my new line-shaft, and I need a steam engine now!

Dr. Hillbilly · May 2, 2022

The die is cast. No more debating the line-shaft as I have acquired a main-shaft and 6 counter-shafts. They do not all match so I still need to acquire or make a few pulleys...

But seriously, does anyone know of a suitable steam engine available? I have some big electric motors which I can use while searching, but need a steam engine!

johnoder · May 2, 2022

Probably smart to know all about this part

Illinois Fired Pressure Vessel laws - Google Search

have fun

Dr. Hillbilly · May 2, 2022

Thanks John.
I am in the process of moving to Ohio were the laws are not as restrictive, and in fact not restrictive enough. So self-preservation will drive my boiler inspections more than regulations. Ohio has an exemption from normal pressure vessel regulations for stationary steam engines used for agricultural purposes. My new place in Ohio is a farm...
All the same, I am largely free of suicidal tendencies so I am already researching tools for ultrasonic testing of wall thickness and for static pressure testing to 4X safety factors. I would appreciate guidance from the many experts on the forum on these tasks as well.

dundeeshopnut · May 2, 2022

While a steam engine is WAY cool, and if you fire it with wood, very economical, and "off the grid/self sufficient" in spades! Friggin long time to raise steam though for a 10 minute job to get a piece of machinery back out in the field ahead of the weather, or those sudden bursts of inspiration at 10 o'clock at night. Have you considered an early single cylinder diesel?

Joe in NH · May 2, 2022

I am in the process of moving to Ohio were the laws are not as restrictive, and in fact not restrictive enough.

Medina (Ohio) Traction Engine accident cast horrors into the hearts of legislators. Generally everything "tightened up" in the mid-sections of the country after that debacle. Inspector report: Antique boiler explosion in Medina, Ohio | Minnesota Department of Labor and Industry

I can't comment on Ohio changes directly, but in Massachusetts what saves the hobby is the exemption of "boilers in private residences" from formal inspection. New Hampshire has a similar exemption. Both states but Massachusetts specifically "frown" literally at historical boilers in public places. I have heard of one person at a Massachusetts show who was served with a "cease & desist" order.

Of course a boiler accident here, should it occur in your home, would be an event of discussion between your or your surviving family and the insurance company.

Joe in NH

Dr. Hillbilly · May 2, 2022

dundeeshopnut said:
While a steam engine is WAY cool, and if you fire it with wood, very economical, and "off the grid/self sufficient" in spades! Friggin long time to raise steam though for a 10 minute job to get a piece of machinery back out in the field ahead of the weather, or those sudden bursts of inspiration at 10 o'clock at night. Have you considered an early single cylinder diesel?

I have considered a hit-and-miss engine, but they have become excessively expensive, and cannot be fueled with wood which I have in abundance. I do have several old flathead engines from the 20s and 30s and could use one of them if I am going to resort to petrol or Diesel.

Steam is attractive as I discovered (running the numbers) that the waste energy from a steam engine sized to run my shop is almost perfectly suited to heat the cottage I am building. So there is no lost time for the 10pm inspiration if the boiler is fired continuously.

L Vanice · May 2, 2022

All it takes is money, and the money came from selling nuts. The last time I toured Jasper Sanfilippo's home was in 2009. I had been visiting occasionally for quite a few years and saw the many additions to his collection and display space added over that time. My first visit was to a rather big house with a few nice, but almost normal, additions. Then he added a huge theater with a super-sized pipe organ and a few steam engines in the basement that could be run with a large new air compressor. Trouble was, the engine exhaust piping got covered with ice that would melt, causing rust on all the newly polished steel. Jasper paid to have everything in his private museum made to look shiny new and operate properly. By 2009, the newest addition was a huge hall adjacent to an older huge hall. The new one had a dozen or so large stationary steam engines and a very new-looking boiler that I am sure was up to code and quite functional should Jasper want to run an engine. No more ice on the pipes.

The Sanfilippo Foundation - Place de la Musique

The Sanfilippo Place de la Musique Estate - YouTube

Larry

DDoug · May 3, 2022

I heard rumbling about this, one of the last things Skinner engine was working on before they went bust:
EP2538019A2 - Method of converting a two stroke uniflow Diesel engine to steam operation
- Google Patents

looks like it might just fit the bill.

Or:
4 cylinder, 2.4 liter, 16 valve engine converted to a steam engine - YouTube

Greg Menke · May 3, 2022

On a trip years ago we stopped in on a "farm experience" sort of farm where you could buy food to feed the animals- daughter got a kick over that but I noticed a lineshaft drive wood shop inside one of the barns and a guy gave me a tour. In one end of the building they had a pen with sweeps set up for 2 horses as the prime mover, shaft running into the shop and around a corner via a snazzy bevel gear unit; big pulleys up on the shaft, little ones down on the woodworking machines.

So setting up sweeps might be an interesting alternative if you like horses

Dr. Hillbilly · May 3, 2022

digger doug said:
I heard rumbling about this, one of the last things Skinner engine was working on before they went bust:
EP2538019A2 - Method of converting a two stroke uniflow Diesel engine to steam operation
- Google Patents

looks like it might just fit the bill.

Or:
4 cylinder, 2.4 liter, 16 valve engine converted to a steam engine - YouTube

Actually I have considered conversion of a Ford Flathead V8 to steam operation, by first converting it to a two stroke. The exhaust passages are cast in the block and pass the cylinders at the right height to mill openings from the cylinders (above the piston crown at BDC) into the exhaust just like a Detroit Diesel. I could even pursue a double expansion engine with two cylinders at initial pressure venting into the following 6 cylinders. Of course a completely new cam would be required and manifolding from the exhaust of the first two cylinders to the intakes of the following cylinders. And I happen to have a couple of extra flatheads in the garage...

L Vanice · May 3, 2022

Greg Menke said:
On a trip years ago we stopped in on a "farm experience" sort of farm where you could buy food to feed the animals- daughter got a kick over that but I noticed a lineshaft drive wood shop inside one of the barns and a guy gave me a tour. In one end of the building they had a pen with sweeps set up for 2 horses as the prime mover, shaft running into the shop and around a corner via a snazzy bevel gear unit; big pulleys up on the shaft, little ones down on the woodworking machines.

So setting up sweeps might be an interesting alternative if you like horses

Horses don't eat wood and they eat like you know what. Dogs, on the other hand, are less expensive to feed. I read a history of Washington County, IL years ago and recall that a late 19th Century manufacturing company there started out small. using a dog power to run some machines. Here is a YT of an antique dog power in motion. I see that a dog power can also be run with sheep or goats.

1881 "Enterprise" Dog Powered Treadmill - YouTube

Larry

M.B. Naegle · May 3, 2022

No leads on a steam engine, but by-golly we need more pictures!

What machines are you going to be running? How are your countershafts and clutch's configured? What kind of work do you plan to do with it all? Are you building a building for it, or fitting it into an existing space?

I've got a similar sickness going on in my little garage at home, but it's getting powered by a 54' Chevy 235 inline 6 (Blue Flame version). All my machines were missing the overhead works, so I've been piecing it back together, mainly with hangers and pulleys repurposed from old shaft driven textile machinery.

I love seeing these old overhead driven machine saved, but even more when they're still put to work.

jim rozen · May 3, 2022

As a point of order, one can run an IC engine on wood. Gassification retorts were used in europe during ww2.

jabberwoki · May 3, 2022

You are seriously da man.

john.k · May 3, 2022

Funny about the crackdown ...after the Ohio blast,the State Govt owned museum here couldnt get indemnity insurance on their steam collection,which up to then was regularly run at old engine and machinery shows......The consequence of this was that the steam collections influence on the museum board disappeared,and the arty crafty gays had funds redirected to their own projects...now the steam collection is derelict after being flooded in 2011,and all boiler registrations etc lapsed ...never to be reinstated.

DDoug · May 4, 2022

Dr. Hillbilly said:
Actually I have considered conversion of a Ford Flathead V8 to steam operation, by first converting it to a two stroke. The exhaust passages are cast in the block and pass the cylinders at the right height to mill openings from the cylinders (above the piston crown at BDC) into the exhaust just like a Detroit Diesel. I could even pursue a double expansion engine with two cylinders at initial pressure venting into the following 6 cylinders. Of course a completely new cam would be required and manifolding from the exhaust of the first two cylinders to the intakes of the following cylinders. And I happen to have a couple of extra flatheads in the garage...

Yes, from what I heard, Skinner was trying to convert Detroit diesels to steam.

sandiapaul · May 4, 2022

What about an old gas engine? I'm a steam guy to the bone but a nice old hit and miss would get you going right away nearly. You can add the steam as you go...

L Vanice · May 4, 2022

digger doug said:
Yes, from what I heard, Skinner was trying to convert Detroit diesels to steam.

In 1967, Bill Lear took a crack at making steam-powered cars for the California state police. Then, around 1972 he actually converted a GM bus to steam and demonstrated it. Those buses had Detroit Diesel engines in a Z-drive at the back end, so converting the DD engine might have made sense. But Lear had a steam turbine designed for the project instead. At the bus demo, Lear claimed to have a steam car with a turbine almost ready to show. The project fizzled out. The price of fuel at the time made fuel efficiency more immediate than clean air.

Larry

john.k · May 4, 2022

Ive seen a few Detroits converted to steam......there is no need for a new cam ,the conversions use the fuel injection cam to open an inlet valve ......In the 80s ,I had a steam truck powered by a 3/71 converted to steam.....just for around the farm...it used a giant steam cleaner I got from the army auctions for a boiler...unfortunately,such things run on kerosine or diesel,and with about 1% efficiency ,arent practical except as demonstrations......If you are happy to run on low pressure,you can make a conversion using the head as is ,steam in through the exhaust ports ,and exhausting via the air box ...preferably with a condenser to generate some vacuum.

vonleyser · May 4, 2022

Dr. Hillbilly said:
Thanks John.
I am in the process of moving to Ohio were the laws are not as restrictive, and in fact not restrictive enough. So self-preservation will drive my boiler inspections more than regulations. Ohio has an exemption from normal pressure vessel regulations for stationary steam engines used for agricultural purposes. My new place in Ohio is a farm...
All the same, I am largely free of suicidal tendencies so I am already researching tools for ultrasonic testing of wall thickness and for static pressure testing to 4X safety factors. I would appreciate guidance from the many experts on the forum on these tasks as well.

I have a ultrasonic gage in like new condition that is excess to my needs.
Dakota brand, will get pictures of it for you otherwise I guess I better post it elsewhere for sale

Images of my new line-shaft, and I need a steam engine now!

Aluminum

Diamond

Aluminum

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Cast Iron

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