Intact Gauge/indicator shop Waltham,MA - interest in the machines - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    More goodies-

    A beautiful Union drill cabinet completely full of little bits, a cabinet full of small taps, and a treasure drawer of replacement parts- square thread screws and taps to repair cross slides and other wear items on the tools. Also a length of bronze casting to make new cross slide nuts. This is the stuff I'm most interested in, I have many slides that need repair

    drill-cabinet-closed.jpgdrill-cabinet-open.jpgcabinet-tiny-taps.jpgslide-screws-parts.jpgnut-casting-blank.jpg

    I also dug out many arbors for the P&W hand feed mills- 4 or 5 different length arbors and a few collets. There might be more collets in the attic, but not in as clean shape.

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    And lastly, the attic- Everything up here isn't as clean as the stuff that was out and being used but there is some stuff up here that would certainly be of interest.

    Rolls of leather belting, a pile of flat belt cone pulleys, more countershaft parts, gears, extra lathe parts and whole machines not in use. It would take me all day just to categorize a lot of this stuff. Also up there are the casting patterns (both for in house manufactured lathe accessories and the indicator parts) and raw castings waiting to be machined. Pictures aren't the greatest, but here are a few

    leather-belts-shelf.jpgcasting-patterns.jpgflat-belt-cone-pulleys-parts.jpggears-pulleys-parts-attic.jpgextra-parts-attic.jpg

  3. #43
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    Ahh- and 1 more that wouldn't fit in the 5 photo limit-

    Found in a Waltham watch safe in the basement, a very clean set of Johansson blocks and holders, with the original catalogs

    johansson-block-sets.jpg

  4. #44
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    Holy cow. Is the owner allowing you to purchase items here?

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    Burton LeGeyt,
    Thanks for sharing the pictures .
    It's like looking in a time capsule.
    I hope a way can be found to keep as much as possible of the collection together.
    Jim

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    Concerning the topic of preservation and museums, the biggest hurtles I would see is cash and an interested party. Interested party is a lot more than a bunch of guys online. You need an individual or group of individuals willing to put in their own time doing the physical foot-work of documentation and sorting. They can outsource some tasks like photography, but the more outsourcing you do, the less funds you have for storage fees, media presentation, etc. Organizations and societies almost never have extra cash just floating around. They supplement that deficiency by finding more interested individuals that can volunteer time or skills.

    IMO, the more pictures information that the OP can put on here, the more individuals like Burton LeGeyt can get in and do a little part, and the less likely that the "general public" will get in and squander the collection via antique shops and scrap yards. The idea of someone buying the whole lot would be the fantastic best case scenario. IMO the right buyer would be better than an historical organization, but the likelihood of either happening is very very slim. IMO, the most likely situation is what the OP is after; splitting up the collection between multiple good homes. That puts the lot in pieces more affordable and manageable.

    I would say too that any castings, parts, patters, fixturing, prints, everything else that was special and specific to Randall and Stickney, should be kept together. Whoever buys a lathe or a bench, any custom pie-jaw collets or boxes of unfinished parts should be put aside and sold together to a similar interested party. My family business began as two companies we merged with our own shop, as they were in a similar position to where Randall and Stickney is now. We bought them because we had a personal interest in "restoring" the company, but they also had been run poorly for long enough that they were affordable, and there was room in the market to bring the company back. So there are people out there that would buy the shop as a whole, but I feel like my family is the odd exception. If the OP can sell off enough of the "generic" assets, then the remaining specialty assets can go on a couple pallets until the right buyer comes along.

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  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Holy cow. Is the owner allowing you to purchase items here?
    There have already been a few sales from the building- a newer lathe and a big Greenerd press. As much as this seems like a nice long term preservation opportunity it is also an active estate cleanout- I'm deferring to Jim, Jgard911 from the thread here, who is trying to figure out what makes sense as far as how/when to sell everything. There are parts I am certainly (very) interested in, but I'm waiting to see what the overall plan is. I know people have already been making offers- The stuff I want I don't think of as particularly valuable, but if someone else thought so I don't want to take advantage.

    In that vein, and in the event of any future sale, I'm finding it tricky to advise on pricing for a lot of this stuff. The Hardinge HSL and the DV59 are easier, there are current markets for those machines and you can put a reasonable price on them. What to ask for the antique bench lathes, even when very well tooled, is harder to guess. As much as possible I'm trying to accurately describe what is good about them so an interested person can make a reasonable decision. It's also fun and educational to get to see all this stuff and spend time in the shop before it gets broken up

    Someone from the Charles River museum did do a walk through the other day but it didn't seem like there was any possibility of it staying together through them. I don't know that for a fact, but that's what it seemed like.

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    I shouldn't ask this, but is there a price for all of it, old machines, casting, jig & fixtures, drawings, etc.?

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    Thank you for posting.
    The preservationist in me pines for the fate of all that gear in its association with all the features and history of the place.

    Time is the destroyer eh

    I hate to say it but an auction held by an antiquarian aligned sort of outfit might be the best option.
    The material would have to have a considerable pre auction effort made to 'package' each lathe etc into appropriate kits with as complete of set of accessories etc and the whole assemble well photographed and documented.

    To me the goal here would not so much be to target the greatest renumeration but to preserve each "package" in as complete of an assemblage as possible and sold off into appreciative hands.

    I believe the worst outcome would be the mass walk through pick up and go sort of sale- many orphans would be made of accessories and even if carted off they would die the ignominious death of scrap if parted from useful equipment.

    I think the gear would bring sufficient return to interest the correct auctioneer but I certainly have no expertise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    ...
    To me the goal here would not so much be to target the greatest renumeration but to preserve each "package" in as complete of an assemblage as possible and sold off into appreciative hands.
    ....
    Wonder what the priorities of the property owner are?

    SWAG:

    1) clear the building so it can be sold.

    2) do this at minimal cost.

    3) offset the cost of clearing it by selling whatever can be sold without much trouble.

    I fear (and hope the opposite is true) there my be a dumpster involved. I for one would love the chance to bring cash to the place and make reasonable offers for a pile-O-stuff.

    Waltham isn't far from here really, and it's my old stomping ground from long ago.

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    I didn’t pick it up from the thread- the op know what the bottom line is here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trboatworks View Post
    I didn’t pick it up from the thread- the op know what the bottom line is here?
    Bottom line meaning:

    1) how much to purchase all the articles within the walls of that shop?

    2) what does the owner really want to do with the machinery?

    3) what's the time frame before they order a dumpster?

    4) when does the property get put up for sale?

  18. #53
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    I am pasting below most of the Private Message response from the OP (I hope he does not mind)

    I don't know ANYTHING about any of the machines. I don't know what "accessories" go with each machine. Until people told me I didn't know the difference between a lathe and a milling machine. I had no idea the machine in the basement was a planer.

    Burton has been very helpful, and he has offered to put everything together with each corresponding machine. Then maybe better pictures would be appropriate. I have offered to compensate him appropriately.

    We would like to make a little money on the equipment. But that is not a top priority. We will probably make $700,000.00 to $800,000.00 on the sale of the property. I doubt we will make $10,000 to $20,000 on the equipment. I think I have an idea what "fair" prices are. That's all I'm looking for. I don't want to be ripped off. I want the buyer to feel as satisfied with the purchase as I am. I'd like to find homes for all the equipment.

    I had one gentleman from CT visit the property. He picked up a roll of sheet copper that probably weighs 20 lbs and offered me $10. I'm pretty sure he would have made 8x his money selling it for scrap. I lost some confidence in his motives. On the other extreme. I offered Burton an "accessory" for a machine he already owned, but didn't have, and he told me "no". Because he didn't want to reduce the value of my machine !! Now that's integrity !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Bottom line meaning:

    1) how much to purchase all the articles within the walls of that shop?

    2) what does the owner really want to do with the machinery?

    3) what's the time frame before they order a dumpster?

    4) when does the property get put up for sale?
    I don't know the answer to any of these questions unfortunately, hopefully Jim will chime in with some sense of what he (and the rest of the family) is/are thinking. I get the feeling that there aren't hard answers yet to any of these. Posting the original thread in the commerce section was likely a first step to try to figure out what might be an option for question #2 and this thread may inspire an answer to question #1.

    ** I see Frank and I were posting at the same time **

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    There's a sliding scale for pricing things like this. For example a reasonably complete stark lathe as shown, will sell in a heartbeat for $100 - and won't sell at all for $1000.

    The closer to the low end, the faster it sells. At the low end the seller feels abused, at the top end, the stuff goes to the scrapper. Guys like dave sobel were experts at navigating that economic landscape. Plus, he never was under time pressure as this situation is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Bottom line meaning:



    2) what does the owner really want to do with the machinery?

    That one.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    There's a sliding scale for pricing things like this. For example a reasonably complete stark lathe as shown, will sell in a heartbeat for $100 - and won't sell at all for $1000.

    The closer to the low end, the faster it sells. At the low end the seller feels abused, at the top end, the stuff goes to the scrapper. Guys like dave sobel were experts at navigating that economic landscape. Plus, he never was under time pressure as this situation is.
    There is also a "volume" question.

    If you have ONE nice, or reasonably rare good lathe with accessories to get rid of, you can often find "that guy" who wants it badly enough to pay top dollar.

    If you have 15 of them to get rid of, there probably are not enough "that guy" types around to take them all at top dollar. They are going to sell for less.

    The entire shop is unlikely to sell as a unit. You can try, but with a time limit, it's doubtful. With no time limit, you still need "that guy".

    So, my approach would be to identify all the similar machines of each type. Sort out all the accessories for them. Make up "packages", some with more accessories, and some with less, so you have "premium" machines (choose the best condition), and ordinary. Make the prices accordingly scaled, and offer them.

    In some ways, this is potentially handled best by an auction process. In that case, you can either do the packages, OR let the auctioneers (get a good machinery auction firm who knows what they are seeing) deal with it as best they can. They want to make money, and so do the heirs. With the right company, it should work out. With the wrong one it could be a real cluster.

    Nobody has to like this, but the goal is for people to pay enough that your customers want the machines, for use, not as scrap or a source of steampunk art. And, of course, so that the heirs get the best return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    There is also a "volume" question.

    If you have ONE nice, or reasonably rare good lathe with accessories to get rid of, you can often find "that guy" who wants it badly enough to pay top dollar.

    If you have 15 of them to get rid of, there probably are not enough "that guy" types around to take them all at top dollar. They are going to sell for less.
    Yeah... like if one Mona Lisa was worth $100 million dollars, what are two Mona Lisa's worth?

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    And the sundry- that Union Twist Drill cabinet above.
    Whew- in the right boutique market that is a $2000 dollar bit of kit sitting there..

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    looks like a one lot sell for 100k to me . there's a lot of foxes out there wanting to guard this hen house . get the going 1 going 2 sold man in there mite see 500k so you have to give him 30% or more lot better then your $10 for your $50 roll of copper mite be your family could pocket 300k even 150k to 200k is better then your 10k to 20k


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