Kearney Trecker Model D

schaefjb · Nov 21, 2017

Came out of the Hoover Vacuum Cleaner plant in North Canton Ohio. Guy is asking 2k for it. Looks to be in good shape but I'm wondering about the availability of tooling since they had multiple different spindles over the years. The serial number is 19-7333. I would value anyone's input. Thank you!

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johnoder · Nov 21, 2017

Since it is somewhat later (1954), I would imagine it has the non drawbar proprietary K&T spindle nose based on the NMTB 30

There are no sources of this tooling to my knowledge - other than the usual used venues

I paid $1000 for my 1968 job and later gave it away

Thumbnails are the elusive tooling for the referenced spindle. You can see how "nice" the tooling was that came with my '68

schaefjb · Nov 21, 2017

johnoder said:
Since it is somewhat later (1954), I would imagine it has the non drawbar proprietary K&T spindle nose based on the NMTB 30

There are no sources of this tooling to my knowledge - other that the usual used venues

I paid $1000 for my 1968 job and later gave it away

Thumbnails are the elusive tooling for the referenced spindle. You can see how "nice" the tooling was that came with my '68

John,
That looks exactly like the spindle the one I am looking at has got. That's a shame, because other than that it is a nice looking machine. I am grateful that you told me that though because it would've bit me if I got it. Thank you for your help!

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schaefjb · Nov 21, 2017

It's a damn shame I can't find the collets for this bad boy. This machine has the KT 30 and KT 20 collet holders on it but only one collet. I hate seeing these things go to the graveyard.

Paolo_MD · Nov 22, 2017

How difficult is to make your own work collets? For a milling machine you don't need many. Probably, you won't need much more than 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4". If you're really in the mood, you can add a 5/8" collet too.
A complementary option (for which you can skip making the smaller collets) is to make/adapt a ER series collet holder and use it instead of the K&T 20.
The fact that the K&T collets are almost impossible to find could be a good point for negotiating the price of the mil.

Paolo

johnoder · Nov 22, 2017

schaefjb said:
It's a damn shame I can't find the collets for this bad boy. This machine has the KT 30 and KT 20 collet holders on it but only one collet. I hate seeing these things go to the graveyard.

For what its worth, SUTTON TOOL made these for awhile and then went away. Another search term for you

schaefjb · Nov 22, 2017

I would gladly make an adapter. I am simply intimidated by my lack of experience in figuring out how, truthfully. I agree though, the obscurity of the tooling required to make this machine useful would be a good bit of leverage against his asking price. I'm in the market for my first mill and know that this one has functions that are far over my head. I just saw an opportunity to grab one that is built like a brick sh*t house for a reasonable amount of money when compared to what people in my area want for a Bridgeport or other comparable smaller machines. This guy has two of them and neither has any tooling (of course). I just didn't want to wind up in a position where I have a mill that I bought for a song but can't find any tooling for it.

Johnoder- Thanks for the lead on the Sutton tooling. I've noticed that other people seem to have asked the same questions as I'm asking now over the last 10 years and the more enterprising individuals have made adapters to accept more available tooling. Do you or anybody else here at the forum think this machine is worth chasing if I can muscle the price down or would I be better served letting it go to someone else? Thank you all in advance for your honesty.

johnoder · Nov 22, 2017

Like other highly capable manual machines, it depended on not only great skill, but a whole range of attachments

Lacking attachments is worse than lacking spindle tooling as they are harder to come up with

Fun machines, but any decently equipped CNC can make it look old and feeble - that is why they are sitting around neglected today

Its a 5500 Lb 3/4 HP mill - and that right there is somewhat strange

schaefjb said:
I would gladly make an adapter. I am simply intimidated by my lack of experience in figuring out how, truthfully. I agree though, the obscurity of the tooling required to make this machine useful would be a good bit of leverage against his asking price. I'm in the market for my first mill and know that this one has functions that are far over my head. I just saw an opportunity to grab one that is built like a brick sh*t house for a reasonable amount of money when compared to what people in my area want for a Bridgeport or other comparable smaller machines. This guy has two of them and neither has any tooling (of course). I just didn't want to wind up in a position where I have a mill that I bought for a song but can't find any tooling for it.

Johnoder- Thanks for the lead on the Sutton tooling. I've noticed that other people seem to have asked the same questions as I'm asking now over the last 10 years and the more enterprising individuals have made adapters to accept more available tooling. Do you or anybody else here at the forum think this machine is worth chasing if I can muscle the price down or would I be better served letting it go to someone else? Thank you all in advance for your honesty.

Monarchist · Nov 22, 2017

schaefjb said:
I would gladly make an adapter.

You might not have to do.

So long as the spindle is thru-bored, just because K&T had a locking system that did not need a drawbar doesn't mean you are "legally forbidden" from fabbing yerself a drawbar.

Then...

"Based on" NMTB30? See if a stock 30-taper will seat.

Or even if not-quite... there are still specialty makers out there that have NO trouble matching the arse-end. Lathe work 101 for most folk as the taper run is short enough a compound with decent travel can traverse it in one go.

Upshot is that instead of the scarce K&T collet & lock system, I personally would opt for ER or TG collet system, and PDQ-Marlin for side-lock end-mill holders & c.

Partly because Marlin Tool are still in business, and in the USA, not offshore.

Home - PDQ Marlin Tool

Order (at least) one new "Master" holder, then scout Ebay (and right here on PM) for more holders. Several of us have them. Common? Not. Useful? Very!

2CW

johnoder · Nov 22, 2017

Except of course there is no hole for drawbar, or access to upper end of spindle

One of the reasons for this is the ability of the spindle to ORBIT on up to a 4" radius

Andy FitzGibbon · Nov 22, 2017

Monarchist said:
So long as the spindle is thru-bored...

It's not.
Andy

Monarchist · Nov 22, 2017

Andy FitzGibbon said:
It's not.
Andy

B'lieve Marlin Tool or similar competitors still in business - or a bit of lathe work, DIY - could solve that problem, then.

Only needs done the one time to migrate to nose-art that is easier to find.

I keep saying this.. I've never understood how it is that Machinists - of all people - get hung-up over making "stuff" for their own use that is simpler and cheaper than often fiendishly complex goods they make every day, year-in, year-out for their customers.

Monarchist · Nov 22, 2017

johnoder said:
Except of course there is no hole for drawbar, or access to upper end of spindle

One of the reasons for this is the ability of the spindle to ORBIT on up to a 4" radius

Neat feature.

Specialized locking is not a show-stopper, even so.

If K&T could do it - pre-laser-era, and even pre, or early-days EDM, or order it done - so can we chikn's, nowadays.

schaefjb · Nov 22, 2017

True enough. The only catch is I'm a fabricator and a welder so when it comes to anything machining related, I'm sort of ham-handed. Then again, I suppose by ruining stuff and trial and error is how I'm going to learn.

JST · Nov 22, 2017

johnoder said:
Except of course there is no hole for drawbar, or access to upper end of spindle
.....

That last part seems like a real stopper. Holes can be drilled, noses can be re-ground.

But a couple tons of machine with a mini-motor and super special tooling? That should be a "pass" unless you know what the machine is and want it for the special capabilities.

There are an awful lot of standard Bridgeports in the world, that are probably more versatile and certainly far more standard.

Andy FitzGibbon · Nov 22, 2017

Monarchist said:
B'lieve Marlin Tool or similar competitors still in business - or a bit of lathe work, DIY - could solve that problem, then.

Only needs done the one time to migrate to nose-art that is easier to find.

I keep saying this.. I've never understood how it is that Machinists - of all people - get hung-up over making "stuff" for their own use that is simpler and cheaper than often fiendishly complex goods they make every day, year-in, year-out for their customers.

2D mills aren't hard to find, or in any great demand. The asking price for this one, at 2K, is way high. Older ones did use a drawbar, and more standard tooling.

If someone really wanted a 2D, it would be a fairly easy task to find a good machine, with a more readily available spindle, for less money.

Many things that CAN be done aren't necessarily what SHOULD be done. A 2D mill is a neat purpose-specific piece of history. As a general shop machine, it's limited by tooling size, power, and the small table- like having a round-ram Bridgeport that takes up as much space as a K&T 3H vertical.

Andy

ramsay1 · Nov 22, 2017

Model D

schaefjb said:
Came out of the Hoover Vacuum Cleaner plant in North Canton Ohio. Guy is asking 2k for it. Looks to be in good shape but I'm wondering about the availability of tooling since they had multiple different spindles over the years. The serial number is 19-7333. I would value anyone's input. Thank you!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Some had B3 spindles.... I suspect mine did until it was opened up to take R8 collets....Mine is a '42 model that was converted to single phase 220 volt (all five motors) and has rotab drive bracket 2k is a good price if it's in good shape.. I paid more than that for mine some years back because of the spindle and single phase motors... Mine came with a nice vise and rotab plus lots of new cutters...It works fine just wish it had power lift on the knee.. The manual knee lift was a major gripe about the early 2D I was told by an old K&T employee... Ramsay 1

Monarchist · Nov 22, 2017

schaefjb said:
True enough. The only catch is I'm a fabricator and a welder so when it comes to anything machining related, I'm sort of ham-handed. Then again, I suppose by ruining stuff and trial and error is how I'm going to learn.

Even more so then - see other inputs - this is probably the wrong mill for you, even were it fully tooled.

schaefjb · Nov 22, 2017

Fair enough; like I said, I'm sure it'll do things that are far beyond my skill set, and unfortunately the nostalgia of it being steeped in local history doesn't make it more practical for a beginner like myself. If I had ten times the space and won the Power Ball, I'd buy it and set it in a corner just so I could admire it but at this juncture that's not a path I can take.

Hobby Shop · Nov 22, 2017

$2k without attachments or tooling is to much. Its just like anything else, the missing parts are always worth more than the whole. Any CNC will mill circles & squares around manual machines. Personally, I wouldn't be without my 2D, it gets used 2:1 over the BP. It all depends on what you plan to do with it. I've machined some parts that never would've been finished if I had to make them on a Bp with a RT. Tell them to multiply their $2k asking price by .5 and it better have a power knee. If not, find another machine.
Andy

Kearney Trecker Model D

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