Klopp Schnellhobel! Old school
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  1. #1
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    Default Klopp Schnellhobel! Old school

    Hi!

    I have got my hands on a fairly old type shaper of the Brand Klopp. It is very steardily built and seems like a very good machine. It is worn and I intend to restore it.
    From what I have found out it is possibly a model 375. 1930's??

    There is a question I have.
    It seems to be have been lubed with grease for many years and it certainly did not do any good for the ways over the years. There is lots of scarred surfaces where the scraped surfaces used to be.

    Based on my experience, way oil would be a much more effcient way (less friction, better surface disctribution and less mess ) to lube these ways.
    So my questions is, did they use grease in the 30æs because the way oils of the day was not capable?
    I do intend, after rescraping it to use way oil, but I was hoping someone could shed light on this grease lubrication concept?
    I have attached a photo of the oil channels in the ways. How would you get grease to distribute properly in these? Most grease is kind of high friction, sticky and work best for slow moving parts in my experience




    I hope someone out there have some info on this machine:-)
    Best regards
    Mats Andersen
    [email protected]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20201229_003106-1-.jpg   20201229_003045-1-.jpg   20210111_000418.jpg   backside-1-.jpg   way-wear-1-.jpg  


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    Mats: I don't know just when way oil was first used, but in the mid 60's, which was when I started my apprenticeship, whale oil use, which was an important part of way oil was being discontinued. This was because of whale populations were dropping. The way oil that was available after that, was inferior and caused problems for a while. I would guess that way oil in the '30s was as good as it was in the 50's.

    Nice looking shaper.

    JH

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    Nice shaper and shop, but I really like the sofa and rug in a shop. It adds class.

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    Cool old shaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ncjeeper View Post
    Cool old shaper.
    thanks guys. It for sure feels and looks like a good machine. I am poulling it apart now and it seems to be in good condition apart fromt the ways. I cannot find the model designation. I do see the number 58 and the letter Z in many locations though. There is also a serial number stamped on the front face of the ramway casting, but no more than that. no date of manufacture either. I have tried to reach out to Klopp.de but cant get through on phone or email.

    M
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20210111_000845.jpg  

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    " Klopp " had an excellent reputation as the maker of small precision shaping machines over here. You saw them quite often in toolrooms. It's a bit unusual to see a ram that appears to be gear driven. All the machines I worked on had either a slotted link motion style drive or an hydraulic cylinder. That's a very nice looking machine though.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    I believe the Klopp could be set up as a draw cut shaper by changing the clapper and running the motor in reverse. Stefan Gotteswinter's videos on you tube showed it being done.

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    One of the photos shows a non-Zerk lubrication fitting. I'm presently rebuilding a Frommia woodworking combination machine, German-made as well which uses only the same fittings and in places that to my uneducated eye should welcome only grease. I have a Tecalemit grease pump originally from a 1952 Bedford truck with a female end which perfectly fits those fittigs. My questions: Is that fitting meant to be fed with oil or with grease? Are there any more of those fittings in the machine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rivett608 View Post
    Nice shaper and shop, but I really like the sofa and rug in a shop. It adds class.
    A shop rug is also really handy- keeps the floor from being so cold and hard. I got the idea from a friend that put some carpet under her Harley for when she wrenches on it- WAY more comfortable to kneel down on and work. I found the rug needs periodic shampoo and vacuum to keep the dirt and chips from making it gross. I put down one of myu daughter's castoff cheapie imitation oriental rugs in front of the workbench and park the motorcycle on it. I don't bother with fancy shampoo, just use Pinesol- it takes up the grease and oil well, makes the shop smell nice for a few days.

    If I had room I'd put in a comfy couch too lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by RODELU View Post
    One of the photos shows a non-Zerk lubrication fitting. I'm presently rebuilding a Frommia woodworking combination machine, German-made as well which uses only the same fittings and in places that to my uneducated eye should welcome only grease. I have a Tecalemit grease pump originally from a 1952 Bedford truck with a female end which perfectly fits those fittigs. My questions: Is that fitting meant to be fed with oil or with grease? Are there any more of those fittings in the machine?
    The fittings can both functino for oil and grease:-) After reworking the ways I will use some drip feed system for the ram instead of the grease. I realie after some mroe digging and help that grease was used on this particular machine. It has an open base to the floor so with much use some oil will depart for the ramways and down to the floor. Way oil is easy to clean with a rag so it doesn worry me. The low friction and smooth running that the way oil will give compared to grease must be a win, hehe. In the photos of where you see the oil grooves in the ways I think this will work
    very well with oil. I will post some pictures in a few days:-)

    M

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    I'm just finishing up on a shaper restoration, and due to the damage done to the rams ways it's clear to me that lubrication failures were a common cause of ram way destruction.
    There are two sets of ways on most shapers that could be considered "High speed", the ram's and the yoke's where the slider rides. So far in my limited experience I've seen yoke way wear but not the kind of galling that the ram's ways typically die of.

    The one I'm working on is a Shape-rite form the 50's and came with what look like "Oil dumps" feeding oil to the fixed ways the ram slides in, there is no means to accurately deliver oil over time, just felts at the bottom of four small reservoirs. This being the second Shape-rite I know of with identical damage I decided to replace the oil dumps with drip oilers.
    The yoke was cast of some kind of semi-steel as it's very resistant to scraping.

    Possibly the slider, being hardened and tempered to 61 Rc, just got more oil, or perhaps the hardened smaller footprint to way ratio changed the dynamics of wear and galling. I wanted to change to aluminum bronze for the slider (Because of the wear both the slider and the yoke had it couldn't be used over) but eventually made the new one out of 4140 hardened and ground the same, however I tripled the volume of the reservoir in the top of the slider.

    With all my mentions of wear one has to wonder about the cross slide's ways and the vertical ways but neither had much damage. Eventually all ways except the tool slide were rescraped, but like I said, only two sets of ways endure 80% of the work done on most common shapers.

    It was of interest to me to discover that the hardened yoke slider pivoted on a hardened bushing of similar high hardness, it too being lubed by the reservoir at the top of the slider. When my brother and I finshed fitting the two there coudn't have been more than one or two tenths clearance at most. I haven't run it yet for any amount of time but I'll be checking the heat of that often when I do.
    All this not to hijack the thread but for the OP's sake, as shaper lubrication is highly important as he also alluded.

    Of course it also occurred to me that my shaper sat in a dark corner and was used without oil for a long time too.


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