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Knight Foundry

lathefan

Titanium
Joined
Nov 7, 2003
Location
Colorado
Since the History Channel is airing their show which includes a segment on the Knight Foundry, I am posting this link to 45 pictures of the foundry from the Library of Congress. Click on photo below. Click on the photos on the site for larger images.

 
Lathefan

Thanks for the link. Caught the last five minutes of that show this morning. Hopefully it will be on again soon.

I didn't realize they made machine tools at this foundry. Were all the machine tools labeled Knight made there?

Jon
 
I'm not sure if there were any other companies with the Knight name that made machine tools. I do think that once a foundry that included a machine shop was established they would produce machine tools at least for their own use and possibly for sale as well. I know for sure that the Pennsylvania Railroad produced machine tools for their own use in their extensive shop facility at Altoona Pennsylvania. I've always been curious if they marked the castings they made for the in-house machine tools they produced with the name of the railroad or any other distinguishing markings. Anyone out there ever see any of these in-house produced machine tools and know whether or not they had identifying markings or not?
 
Lathefan,

Thanks for yoru time and efforts to keep us posted and up to date on old machinery and shops.

O scheduled a trip down hy 49 from Grass Valley with Sutters as the ending destination with a promise of getting a tour inside Knight only to find it closed.
The windows were all boarded up but I could peek through slits in the door. Kind of dark but did get some look at the lathe and wheel. No problem roaming around outside. It was in August adnit was hot. Looked the same as the pictures. I did nose around ae lot without any one bothering me. Lots of mold boxes outside. I was really dissapointed with the trip in that I had hoped to see much more old mining and logging machinery. Ther ewas very little preserved. Found a small museum in Angles Camp which had a few pieces. There they had a huge over shot water wheel (more like the Knight wheel) used for generating electricity. had most recorded on digital viedo tape and some how it got damaged. First time using the camera.
 
Most of the equipment made at Knight's foundry was for the mining industry and later logging. In it's heyday Knight's put out a catalog that showed wonderful engravings of knight water motors and a variety of mining equipment. Among the things made there were stamp mills, hoists, pumps, and electric power plants. I have an old copy of Mining and Scientific Press with an advertisement showing one of Knight's electric power plants. Legend has it that several machines in the shop were made there. These include a large planer, a radial arm drill press, three large pit lathes, a face plate lathe in the pattern shop, and perhaps a few other things. There unfortunately is not a lot of real "proof" that some of these were made at Knight's, but they certainly could have been.

If you saw the History Channel show, that was me running the New Haven lathe. Pretty funny, they were at Knight foundry all day til late at knight. We were supposed to do a whole thing on making the bevel gear from pattern to casting to maching. I guess our 15 min. of fame ended on the cutting room floor!

Still a good show. Knight foundry remains in limbo. Work continues to try and buy it from it's current owner and reopen it. If anybody is interested I can tell you more.

Joe Harralson
 
I guess our 15 min. of fame ended on the cutting room floor!
I wish the entire show had been about the foundry, but alas, I don't think the general public knows what a foundry is and worse yet doesn't care. A real shame considering the importance the foundries and machine shops that have come and gone in this country have had on our way of life. I heard Steve Thomas address you by name on the show, good to know we have TV celebrities on the forum here. :D There must be a measure of satisfaction knowing you have used the oldest operational machine tool in the country. I would sure enjoy making a few parts on it. I wish I lived closer to Knight Foundry and could be personally envolved, although you're right, monetary envolvment is probably more important. Our apathy and procrastination may just kill it.
 
Jon --

There was at least one other Knight in the machine tool business. Knight jig borers and rotary tables were designed and marketed by a Mr. Knight (I've heard but can't recall his first name) of St. Louis.

Mr. Knight contracted the manufacturing of his machines to John Ramming Machine, also of St. Louis, and after Mr. Knight's death his estate sold the designs and name to John Ramming Machine. I understand that John Ramming Machine marketed both machines for a number of years before discontinuing the jig borer. Knight rotary tables are still being made, in diameters up to 84 inches and accuracy as close as one arcsecond, if I remember correctly.

About twenty years ago I wrote the specification for a 42 inch computer-controlled rotary table to be used in a spacecraft-test facility; my employer sent a Request For Proposal (RFP) to a number of rotary table makers. I had expected one of the European makers to take the contract, but John Ramming's proposal for a Knight table was ranked #1 technically and #2 on price, being within a couple percent of the lowest bidder's, and we sent the contract their way. I found John Ramming Machine to be very easy to work with, and the Knight rotary table they delivered on a +/- 3 arcsecond specification was certified by our calibration lab at +/- 1.5 arcsecond based on the cal lab's testing.

In chatting with John Ramming's then-president, John Blasciewtz (I probably spelled his name wrong), he mentioned that John Ramming still had the original drawings for all Knight jig borers and rotary tables ever built, and could supply any parts.

John
 
i was wondering if i could here more about knight, can we do a group trip. i think all of it is very american and part of history. how could we see the unshown parts of the foundry.
 
Joe,

Would deffinately like to hear a lot more about Knight foundry.

I am a model builder / miniaturist who likes to build old horse drawn equipment, logging equipment and machinery in the small, fine scale size. Years ago I had a dream of creating a museum to record such things in miniature as I was seeing them quickly dissapeaering as scrap or rust. Unfortunately life got in the way and now at 73 I find it hard to see a future in the endeavors other than personal satisfication.

Bill
 
John
Your info about John Ramming is correct.

My Dad retired from Ramming in 1988 after I think 19 years.

John Blasciewtz has retired and I think one of his sons took it over.

They busted the union out of there and I've heard that the quality of work has declined.

Back in the 70's and 80's, Ramming was known around St.Louis as one of the top quality shops around.

Dad ran their Akuma lathe from the first day they got it new up till he retired.
Turned a lot of turntables {pun intended}.

I'll E-mail dad a link and maybe he can chime in here with more info.

Don King
 
Here a little more about Knight foundry. I'm sitting here at the computer and hope I can get dates etc sort of right.

Knight foundry is in Sutter Creek, California. It's on highway 49 which travels north/south through what is known here as the Mother Lode country. It was the heart of much of the gold mining industry for many years. There are many interesting historical sites along the way, including an operating stamp mill near Downiville, the Empire mine in Grass Valley which has an operating line shaft machine shop run by volunteers, underground mine tours at the Lincoln project in Sutter Creek and of course Knight Foundry. Highway 49 passes through Coloma, site of Sutters mill that was the starting point for the gold rush.

Knight foundry dates from 1873 during the hardrock mining era that followed the original placer gold rush in 1849-1850. Almost every town with significant mining had a foundry and Sutter Creek had several. They made equipment for the mines and mills. Samuel Knight came from the north east and was said to have been a ships carpenter. He turned up in Sutter Creek where he worked at the Demerast foundry and seems to have been experimenting with water wheels even there. The Knight foundry was a complete machine shop, pattern shop, foundry, blacksmith shop and pipe shop. They designed and built a wide array of equipment and had a drafting room and did engineering of all kinds for the mines. The foundry is an ASME (American society of Mechanical Engineers)historical site because of all the design and development work done there. Knight designed and did a great deal of work on water motors, which are small high speed high pressure turbines. Knight was a contemporary and competitor to Pelton. The Pelton wheel and Knight wheel are very similar, but the buckets in the pelton wheel are divided where the Knight are not. A competion held a mine indicated the Pelton design was slightly more efficient and after Knight passed away the use of Knight wheels gradually dimished. Knight seems to have been the "brains" of the outfit and after his death the foundry continued mainly as a job shop. It was purchased by Carl Borg in the 1970's and ran until shortly before Carls death in the late 1990's. It is now owned by Richard Lyman who is holding it until a group can raise enough money to purchase it and run it as a historical foundation.

The site contains a lot of stuff, much of it from the 1800's. In the shop there are two pit lathes which were almost certainly made there, plus a very large pit lathe in an adjacent building, also made at Knights. There is a large planer said to have been made at Knights, a shaper, a smaller planer, a drill press, two very old lathes, a large radial arm drill and a smaller drill press, a pattern shop with lathe, band saw, table saw and face lathe. Thousands of patterns, some from the 1870's, a file of engineering drawings from the 1870's. All of the machines are in full working order and run powered by Knight water motors. There are about 11 water motors in all that run different machines. In the foundry are two cupolas, a core oven and lots of foundry tools. The cupolas are not in good shape and will need renovation before they can work. I had the great good fortune of helping on about 15 iron pours before the foundry was shut down. Let me tell you, molten iron is HOT!!

There is lots more to tell but this is getting way too long.

Thanks for the interest. Joe Harralson
 
Joe

Thanks for taking the time to share the history especially now that you are famous
. I guess there was no reason for them to not make their own machine tools especially when there was some slack time and labor was cheap. That is good work you guys are doing perserving the foundry.

John

Thanks for the info. I hadn't heard of the Knight rotary tables or jig borers.
 
One more comment.

I just looked through the pictures on the link posted by latheman. They give a pretty good idea of what Knight foundry looks like although the pictures were taken while Carl was still alive. After his death some items were removed and sold and there was a general clean up so today the interior is less cluttered. Some of the foundry items like flasks and the muller were sold.

Check out the lathe in the background of figure 45. You can't see too much except the large face plate. This lathe is double ended! It has a very long bed, I'm guessing 15-20 feet. It was so long that at some point Knight built another head stock and carriage on the oppopsite end from the original headstock, so that it is two lathes on a common bed. The head stock is unusual in that it has a rope drive instead of the normal flat belt. This modification was certainly done at Knight foundry.

Joe
 
I love history and old stuff! Trying to set up a 1800's shop with the old tools etc. I have collected
 
How randow. I just saw this reply to this 14 year old thread.

My wife and I stayed in Sutter Creek for a weekend last year. We were looking through the windows of the foundry when one of the volunteers pulled up and asked us if we'd like a tour. Here's a link to the photos I took on our tour.

IMG_3733 by Chris Attebery, on Flickr

IMG_3745 by Chris Attebery, on Flickr

IMG_3748-Edit by Chris Attebery, on Flickr



Follow this link to see the rest of the pictures: https://flic.kr/s/aHskH6PGJK
 
Chris Attebery, in that last photo, if you happen to know, was that two T-lathes facing each other, or a synchronized faceplate and "tailplate" on one lathe?
 








 
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