Kyser Johnson Bandsaw in Denver - anyone interested in a project?

I ran across a fairly large (by my standards at least) Kyser Johnson bandsaw sitting in downtown Denver last night. Maybe 5' long? Give or take. Looks like something you would find in a production shop.

Talked to the owner about it, he said he was looking in the $150 or so range for it.

Blade and pulleys didn't turn by hand (at least to me) but it looked all there and not rusted through. The blade wasn't rusted up badly either.

I think if you soaked the whole thing in kerosene and powerwashed the crud off it could be made to work. And for a lot less money then the HF contraptions.

It had a property of General Electric tag on it as well.

If anyone is interested, send me a PM and I'll get you a phone number.

FWIW, it's Kysor, but either way, a great unit. I'd pay $150 in a second if it were within an hour's drive.

thnx, jack vines

This ISN'T the one...

This isn't the machine in note, but I'll bet it (Kysor-Johnson)looks LIKE this one...

I snagged one in somewhat less-pretty for $100...

And here's what it looked like AFTER...

Here's what that chain-hangin' rustbucket looked like after I gave it a thorough goin-through.

It's a tad blurry- sorry. Mine didn't have 'factory' rear leg casting- it had something fabricated. Front peg-leg WAS still there, and useable, but I needed mobility, so I cut down a lightweight trailer axle and torch-fitted a pair of space-saver spares to the back, and the front axle from a riding-mower, with a tow-bar to the front.

There's not much IN these saws that can go 'bad'... about 900lbs of iron, and 1/2lb of sheetmetal. They're not fancy at cutting angles, but they'll cut a fairly large piece.

By the way... Kysor, Johnson, or Kysor-Johnson... it's the same saw. Last I looked in one of the major catalogs, this same line of saw was still for sale NEW... and they had the Johnson name on 'em. Good stuff... impossible to kill.

You guys are seriously tempting me


DaveKamp, it looks like exactly like yours.

How much work is it to take apart?

Is there anything that requires adjustment (blade tension?), new bearings?

How big is the motor on those things? I have a new 3/4 hp motor I can put in there (I think).

Finally, how do I get it on the back of a trailer?

How

Easy!

It's easy to get on a low trailer... if you're really strong, and have a likewise friend, you can back up to it, lift one end on, slide it forward, and lift the other end on... (yes, I did, by myself) a non-muscle way, would be to strap it under an ordinary engine-crane, pick it up, back trailer under it, set it down, lift engine-crane into trailer, and go. I frequently put my engine crane in my small steel-deck (low profile) utility trailer to move machines.

Any ordinary base-mount motor will work- I think mine had a 1/2hp repulsion-start motor... brushes were shelled, so I stuck in whatever I had around... think mine has a 3/4hp 1725rpm motor.

Guides are all cartridge-type ball-bearing, generic bearing-shop parts... as are the big wheel bearings. Has a basic enclosed worm-reduction unit driving an internal pinion... never-wear-out type situation. Step pulleys on motor and worm-reducer to give you three speed choices.

Not hard to take apart... everything is incredibly obvious, everything's meant to be worked-on and serviced. Don't break it down to move it, just pick it up, plop it in, block the feet down and strap it solid.

Bulletproof... and worth well over $400, so take $150 in cash, with trailer and engine crane... grab and go!

I have one of these saws Model J that is missing the guides. I have 100 in and it runs fine. Hard to cut without the guides. I'll get to it one day.


Lynn

Hey Dave,

That rust bucket saw looks quite familiar and The rebuild looks great. So glad you got it back into service.

I am now running the B version of their saw which is smaller and more compact. Both machines are great bomb proof saws. The J still sells today and costs big bucks.

Be careful moving that saw around- they are definitely heavy with a tendency to roll over- I would be very wary about loading without some sort of mechanical advantage. Off the legs, it is simply a heavy lump, with the legs it is another beast- be careful.

Pete

UPDATE!

Got this thing back to my lair and unloaded it using a skidsteer.

Loading was accomplished with the seller's truck winch and a couple of his friends helping.

Its laying on its side now but I think it should be ok.

I will get some pictures this weekend.

I need to add some casters to the base so I can roll it around.

Its got a motor and some brass fittings for what looks like the coolant system

The coolant pan is pretty bent but not unfixable.

Any sources for parts and a breakdown manual?

I need to get the moving jaw for the vice.

Congratulations!

Pete- you're right about moving it carefully. It doesn't look like it, I spaced out those tires so that it created a pretty decent support 'triangle' where the machine's center-of-gravity was lower than the wheels' track width. It pulls very nicely from one farm-building to another, using one of my Cub Cadets, and a guy would hafta try REALLY HARD to tip it over.

But you're right, it'd leave a dent in the floor if it did.

As for the coolant system... mine doesn't have one.

Movable vise jaw? Well, if you shoot me a reminder-email in another month or two (when it gets above -40 wind-chill?) I'll detach the movable-jaw from mine, carry it into the 'warmer' shop, and fab up something to get-you-by 'till you find the real-deal (or not).

Lynn- Guides? are you missing all of both guides, or just some small parts? I can unhook and photo mine for 'ya, or possibly even fabricate some suitable patterns for 'ya.

As for parts breakdowns and manuals, these saws are still being made... I think MSC or the like had 'em listed when I looked up mine... so you MIGHT be able to get something close to the original doc, perhaps even replacement parts... but the darned thing's so obvious, there's not much of a manual necessary...

My '68 Model J has a large ring gear on the drive wheel that the pump gear is engaged to. The pump is a very simple eccentric flexible vane affair that Johnson still stocks parts for and they are reasonable.

There is no tool in my shop I use more frequently, don't know how I got along with out it before. There is a lot you can do when the opening will easily take 10" X 18". The big, quick vise will hold a large, complex work holding fixture too.

Here's a link to a $20 copy of the manual but it's a simple machine and I've not yet found a need for a manual.
http://cgi.ebay.com/OZ~KYSOR-Johnso...temQQimsxZ20090112?IMSfp=TL090112124010r12578

Bob

I'm guessing this is going to turn into a weekend by weekend restoration blog

Went to some industrial surplus place up north today to get some casters.
Its basically a steelyard but he has a bunch of useful garbage laying around for sale. My kind of place

$14 later I had four casters (three with brakes) that would seem to fit my needs.

Open up my garage door to this:




Its a work in progress.....

The saw at that point was laying around in a storage unit (shop is two doors down). I needed some way of getting it to move and then uprighting it as well.

Using a random (and free! very important) board I had I made a base to mount the casters. I chose to use only three since the outside is uneven asphalt and I was afraid it would have difficulty sitting level.

Got the landlord to get his skidsteer and hoist the thing up, hence the blue strap.

After some gymnastics, it was sitting nice and level but I couldn't easily move it. A quick push with the skidsteer helped.

Unfortunately, it hit right on the crank handle for the vice adjustment and knocked off the outer ring

My fault. I was in charge.

I took off the bottom sheetmetal, where the coolant flows for the move.



Damn this thing is a monster.

I can't figure out where that triangular shaped piece on the bottom of the picture goes to. The cable to the coolant pump has an electric cable going through it. It was held by the cable when I got it.

There is a small coolant pump with a "Little Giant" brand name tag on it. Its dirty but no worse then I've seen in use before. Its a little electric thing which I am guessing was aftermarket.

There is an AB switch on the front leg. One wire to the motor and the other to the coolant pump.

Current tally of missing parts:

Vice Jaw (mentioned prior)
Hydraulic cylinder for downfeed
Above mentioned handle (possibly braze it back together?)
A piece of sheetmetal from the back (this could be easily fabricated I think)

Also, the gearbox is leaking a little. Which is good since it means that there is actually some oil in there preventing it from rusting shut.

Overall not bad, a little surface rust but no major corrosion. A little sand paper, a bath in the kerosene and some German machinery green paint will make it like new. The missing parts don't seem like they would be hard to fab together.

Plan for tomorrow:

Move into shop unit ( got some space cleared out there for it).

Figure out what to do with the casters. The front mount was not my best work to say the least. The brakes? Not sure if they work or not, seems to be stuck about half way on. Turns out they only lock the wheel not the rotation and I didn't think of that when I got them but I'm not sure if that's an issue.

The other, main thing, I have to do is organize all the stuff in the back of the storage unit (i.e make it go up towards the sky! since I have plenty of space to go that way). If anyone wants to buy some science type stuff send me a pm I probably have an example of it somewhere back there

DaveKamp I'd love to add some wheels like that. Would a garden tractor trailer have a suitable axle? There is one on craiglist locally right now for $25. Or maybe I should try to find some other casters?

Got a good microscope?

I don't have a 'scope in my shop for examining cutters...

Ah... for casters... well, as you see, the front leg is kinda... well... single. Fine for a nice, solid shop floor. I made an entirely new front leg, and it's still a one-point affair, but I put a pivot in there... but a LIMITED pivot... my axle can swing probably ten degrees each way max... so if the machine decides to take a viscious lean, the front axle will at least 'try' to stop it. I think the front axle I used came off a Ranch King. $25 is too much... get the whole machine, missing engine, for free.

Rear axle... anything that you can bolt a pair of Space Saver Spares to. Visit the car-wreckers for a pair of space-savers. Not the professional car-wreckers, though- look for the guys that make demolition derby cars... these things are everywhere, and they're either pristine, or totally tattered (by the imbecile who ruins the original wheel by driving 9 miles on a flat tire, and decides to run on the spare forever). My rear axle came off a utility trailer of some type. The axle tube was damaged- hit something on the road. The spindles used some weird bearing setup, so repairing the axle wasn't sensible.

The two space-savers I found did NOT have the correct bolt pattern, so I used the oxy-wrench to precisely relocate the holes, and they actually seat down and run true. That being said, I wouldn't take it on the highway at speeds over 130mph for very long, and I certainly wouldn't do it with a 16' piece of 10x14" I-beam clamped in and cutting... but it's more than suitable for pulling from one farm building, out into the driveway, into another building, or shufflin' around by hand.

As for the handle... it's cast iron. Chamfer the broken edge a bit, clean off as much paint as you can. Put the pieces together, and drive a sheet-metal screw into the broken-areas enough to hold the pieces together. Put it in the oven at 450F for about an hour, add salt, and stir slowly. Take it out, place it on your welding bench, and use a high-nickel rod to fillet them back together. Grind off the excess to make it look pretty, paint it, and tell your friends you welded it back together... but just don't tell anybody how it broke.

Hydraulic cylinder... look for a surplus little air cylinder, and pipe the two ports together with a needle-valve in between. Fill it about half-way with thin oil, and call it done. Or run it without the cylinder.

Leaky gearbox? Probably leakin' 'cause it was lyin' on it's side... if it was leakin' while upright, it probably would've leaked out by now.

The big piece of tin... probably a shop-made 'special tool'... they probably used it to direct waste and lubricant to a receptacle of some sort.

Dave,

The saw looks great!!!, I need to get back out at some point and see it cut some metal.

All,
Just a note for the historical record, Dave's saw has visited O'Hare airport on the back of my landscape trailer along with a thousand pounds or so of Lodge and Shipley parts and a rusted solid Cub Cadet. That was phase four of it's adventure...or phase seven, or phase 107, who is to say, But that saw and I had some adventures...

Great find..tough old saws.

I use an old model J Johnson at work almost every day..we use the hell out of it and it keeps coming back for more..making some disturbing noises in the gearbox these days though.

Sunday update.....

Got some stuff moved around in the storage unit, I have what seems to be a lot more usable space. If I add some shelves I can probably fit three times as much stuff in there. Not sure if thats a good thing or not

Anyways, using some gas at the bottom of a can and some red plastic scrapers from the official PM store, I got a pile of crud off the thing.

I found a crack starting to form on the main frame, about six inches ahead of the vise jaw. The landlord says he thinks he can weld it with some special hydrogen rich stick.

Also, the handle on the front it cracked, might try out our technology there first to make sure it works and is of the proper system.

I took off the switch cover, there is a loose green ground wire from the input side, I can't see anywhere obvious that is should bolt on to. How do I figure that out? Wiring isn't my strongest suite.

Hooked up the motor, this didn't seem too right.



Its just hanging there. If you use only the belt and the weight of the motor to tension, the motor would still be free to vibrate and move fore and aft a little.

What am I missing here and how do I figure out what size belt I need? The outer groove of the pulley has been smashed and missing a chunk, not sure how usable it will be.

There is also a chunk of the casting missing on the back (barely seen in the photo).

I only have a camera on the phone so pardon the shoddy photography.

Dake has the manual for the latest model online:
http://www.dakecorp.com/pdf/Model_J10_JH_10_Manual.pdf

I like this part on the first page.

If your model is prior to 1985, please contact the factory for manual and parts information.
1938 - 1965 Johnson manufactured J saws.
1965 - 1984 Kysor/Johnson manufactured J & JH saws.

Click to expand...

Can anyone (factory perhaps?) give me a mfg date for the saw based on the serial number?

Page 26 features a schematic of the missing vise jaw.

Davekamp, I don't think I have a microscope. I have mostly vacuum type stuff. I sold a pile of it a long time ago, diffusion pumps, conflats and the like. I still have a lot of that stuff, a throttle valve and controller jumped out at me while doing some cleaning.

I have file cabinet drawer full of optics related stuff, but I don't think there is a microscope there. If I had a nice one I would've probably hawked it on ebay a long time ago since I don't really use them a lot

cubtime100, feel free to add your adventures here.

We had one like that at my first job, I didn't like it because the casting was rite over the blade making it hard to set up a piece that had to be cut in a certain place. For simple cutting it worked fine. JC

JCSparks said:

We had one like that at my first job, I didn't like it because the casting was rite over the blade making it hard to set up a piece that had to be cut in a certain place. For simple cutting it worked fine. JC

Click to expand...

I have a customer with one of these. I have only worked on it once so I can't help you to much. His was actually an automatic model. I didn't care to much for the size of the head housing either but they sure are a tank of a saw.

$100 saw

Dave

The only thing that is left of the guides is the slot they slide in. There is a saw for sale ($650) in a nearby town. I'm going to look at it when the weather breaks.

2" of snow in ET shuts everything down. It was after dark when I got off work.


Thanks for the offer.


Lynn

Wrong way...

Hi Pete!

Okay, when the motor is in proper position, it's completely tucked up inside the rear-end area. Move the motor pivot-bracket to the other side of the base, and hang it in there on the belt.

Yes, it's a short belt, and there's nothing but motor-weight providing the tension.

Crack in the bed? Yeah, mine has a crack by a bolt-hole down there somewhere. If it's a common thing, I suspect the crack is probably more due to internal stress from casting, than any particular weakness. If you hafta weld it, grind in a nice 'V' and use a rod indicated for cast iron... it'll be high in nickel. The other way, is warm it up to a soft glow with a torch and gently flow in some brass, then polish the surface smooth with a flapper-wheel in a 4" grinder.

Or just leave it alone.

Ground wires? We don't need no stinkin' ground wires! (just kidding)

Having it floating around in there unrestrained ain't so great. Green wire goes from the GROUND pin of the plug, to the frame of the machine.

Oh, and AW deserves a tremendous Thank-You and a Hee-Haw Saaa-Loooht! for schleppin' the iron beastie from Ohio. It was probably a different trip, but he did the reverse operation with a 5900-series Clausing in incredibly nice shape, at an incredibly nice price, so nobody can accuse me of making Eastern Iowa a roach-motel of quality iron.