lacing 3 ply rubberised transmission (flat) belt like a leather belt?
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  1. #1
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    Default lacing 3 ply rubberised transmission (flat) belt like a leather belt?

    Hi all,

    I've just received some new belt to put an old 1928 BS #2 surface grinder machine back into action. I've got some of the above belt - it is 1.5" 3 ply with a rubberised surface. I have the Alligator steel lacing kit but the belt goes over 7 pulleys in 3.5 meters and I reckon the clack-clack will drive me nuts.

    Anybody had any luck lacing this 3 ply stuff just like you would with leather? The spindle pulley is less than 2" in diameter so I have a feeling gluing it will get stressed with that bend. I suspect I could get it vulcanised into a single loop but just prefer the ability to easily take the belt off.

    Many thanks, and all advice appreciated.

    Greg.

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    I would lace over and under, skip and tuck, double or more with suitable thread and needle. Layout and carthurize holes if possible. If tensile load is high, probably use double row. Use a fixture to maintain, alignment, static load, and joint gap. Lace closest to joint first. Use spring gauge to set tension on thread. May skive and bevel if needed to maintain thickness. Let set for at least overnight, fill joint with clear RTV from one side, squeegee off back side and let cure in fixture for three days. Remove and install.
    Depending your belt's material and thickness of each layer, etc, all steps may not be needed. There is probably alternate methods and shortcuts available.

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    I skived the belt on the pulley side, so that the metal clips were flush with the belt itself. Runs very quiet.............this was on my SB 16

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    Aren't endless belts available?

    JH

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    I've had a lot of problems keeping a belt on my B&S #2. You can't put an endless belt on one - it has to go over the spindle pulley and wrap around the drive wheels. So far, the best result has been using a piece of ruberized conveyor belt with clip lacing. But, It's only been on the machine about a month and I don't use it often so I can't testify as to how long it will last. I used the smallest lacing clips I could find but those still penetrate the entire thickness of the belt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Panhard View Post
    I've had a lot of problems keeping a belt on my B&S #2. You can't put an endless belt on one - it has to go over the spindle pulley and wrap around the drive wheels. So far, the best result has been using a piece of ruberized conveyor belt with clip lacing. But, It's only been on the machine about a month and I don't use it often so I can't testify as to how long it will last. I used the smallest lacing clips I could find but those still penetrate the entire thickness of the belt.
    Have you had problems with leather or just rubber?

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    Check with the belt manufacturer for minimum pulley size. I question whether transmission belting (if we are talking about the same stuff) is suitable for partial contact on a pulley that small.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Have you had problems with leather or just rubber?
    I've never had the leather belt. The machine was pretty worn when I got it and it already had a belt made of some sort of conveyor belting. I have a 2nd #2 in much better condition (albeit in pieces) but the leather belt for that one was left outside and is broken, stiff and rotten. I'm guessing the leather was much better but I don't even know what the original configuration, or even the proper length, was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Panhard View Post
    I've never had the leather belt. The machine was pretty worn when I got it and it already had a belt made of some sort of conveyor belting. I have a 2nd #2 in much better condition (albeit in pieces) but the leather belt for that one was left outside and is broken, stiff and rotten. I'm guessing the leather was much better but I don't even know what the original configuration, or even the proper length, was.
    I have bought leather belting from mcmaster, as with everything the have some info on their stuff posted in catalog/online.
    Machinery handbook is also a source of info on leather belts. Look in the index under Belt, My 13th edition (1946) has more than you will ever want to know.

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    You mention alligator lace but do you actually mean clipper lace. Clipper lace would make very little noise going over all those pulleys and if it did, coating it with something like Devcon Flexane would certainly help quiet it. True clipper lace is pretty dainty and quiet.

    Stuart

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    I tried glueing the stuff in a long scarf....lasts a long /ish time ,but the joint begins to peel ,then fail................ive been using whipper snipper cord with the polyV type auto belt......Stihl cord is the toughest,and seems to last indefinitely.

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    Wow, thank you all - that is quite some replies. Apologies for what seems like a late response but the time diff between the US and Melbourne/Australia can be a killer.

    Muckalee, that sounds like a 'yes'. You're instructions (apart from the gluing) sounds like what I was considering. Thank you.

    rj1939. Thank you - that is interesting. I did have to look up 'skive' - British English has it mainly as another meaning.

    JH: yes - endless belts can be made, but I prefer being able to get the belt off without removing the spindle - and being able to mod the length if need be.

    99panhard - thanks. Yes - although mine is an older model and it isn't so hard to get the spindle out - I have had to make a new spindle and bearing boxes for the old girl, so when that is in and working, I prefer not to touch it again! As a note, the #2 manual I uploaded on vintagemachinery.org has the belt lengths in it for different Hz and table speeds.

    Jeff_G. That is an excellent point!! I did not think of that at all. I went and did a test fit of the (not-yet-joined-up) belt over the spindle pulley with the large counterweight taking some strain and moving the belt did move the spindle fine. The belt does seem to curl to about 2" okay so, whew - I think it'll be okay. As it happens, the belt does not contact 180deg of the pulley but just a smaller section along the top. Effectively, the belt goes to a v-point at the spindle pulley.

    Rob-F. My 1941 has the same. Very informative. Amazing what that old tome has in it ....

    Stuart - the brand is 'Alligator' lace and it came from the US. The teeth on it are actually quite large - not anywhere near as fine as the lace teeth I had on a SB10 belt.

    John K - thanks. That is a good tip. I tried string and fishing line when using poly-v on the SB but ended up using aircraft lock-wire. It does fatigue over time but I've got almost two years out of it so far on the SB. The 'whipper snipper' cord sounds like a great idea. Btw, when I read that I knew you were in Oz ...

    So ... it sounds like lacing could be a goer. Maybe skive the underside to permit space for the lace. However ... the skived/clip thing sounds interesting. I have enough spare balt and lacing clips stuff that I might just do an experiment or two. I'll post my results here.

    Many thanks all, I sure do appreciate your input. .. and I did forget to say happy new year.

    Greg.

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    rj1939. Thank you - that is interesting. I did have to look up 'skive' - British English has it mainly as another meaning.
    Skiving is what the belters call cutting an amount of the belt, equal to the thickness of the clips, so that the clips don't protrude above the surface of the belt.
    I figured is my repair still made noise, I might wipe on a layer of silicone sealant, but it proved unnecessary

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    Since saving money with flat belt,Ive discovered you can do the same thing with V belt.....just cut and lace together with the cord.....staggered holes............I know the cords tough ,doesnt half hurt when it hits your bare foot after the weed eater cuts it off......the genuine Stihl cord lasts ten times longer than cheap cords chopping grass and weeds.


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