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    Default lathe unknown

    hello all
    it was sold in France in the 1900s by a store's name (a fleet of "England) but it seems rather a manufacturing American or other
    is what you know?
    thank you in advance for your help
    fthi

    Tour " A la Flotte d'Angleterre "

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    American?

    Not likely.
    It has a lot of features I have not seen on this side of the pond.
    We typcialy set the bed directly on top of the legs, not offset to the back
    Beveled gears for the back gears are rarely seen on old US lathes
    The crank to move the carrage along the bed is very unusual for an American lathe.
    V ways rather than a flat bed are also typical of american lathes.

    I would start by checking the thread diameters, pitches and thread forms of the screws.
    See if they are a metric or imperial diameters and pitches. That will rule out a lot of countries.
    Then look at the thread form on each of the fastners. If its something other than a 60 deg V you might narrow down the list of countries again - for example 55 deg imperial pitch would be a Wittorth thread form, used in England.

    The gears could provide another clue about the origin. See if you can figure out the pressure angles and pitch of the gears. Imperial and metric gears are a bit different. From the diameters and number of teeth you can calculate a lot of basic gear specks.

    14.5 deg pressure angle gears that mate with an inch series rack would be normal on an American lathe.
    A european manufacturer would probably do something a little different.

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    thank you for its information

    cordially

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    I think it is French, or possibly English. Many similarities with this machine:

    Page Title
    Page Title

    allan

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    hello allan

    indeed, there is a similarity in many mechanical elements
    I continued my research in europe

    thanks for your help
    fthi

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    I wonder if it might be a French machine based on a Britannia lathe ?

    "On a boat from England"???

    Colchester had a thriving port in those days. You could almost see the port, down-hill from the Britannia works.

    Britannia Lathes

    The helical gears are unusual and something I would associate with continental rather than UK lathes hence why I wonder if some parts are French.

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    hello billtodd

    I thought britannia machines without finding the model
    I found a document in English machine sold by Guitel in Paris in 1900, but without the brand

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    The address 'a la Flotte de l'Angleterre' is the same as on frontispiece of Bergeron's Manuel de Tourneur. Helical gears are similar to lathe by Ernault Somua 0f 1880. Will try to send picture. Andrew.

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    olderlathe has sent me a picture of the H Ernhault Somua lathe:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hes-lathe.jpg  

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    thanks billtodd

    very nice paper
    From my research, it is a lathe machine of English 1900
    but I still do not know the brand

    cordially

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    That is the name Bergeron used since the last quarter of the 18th century, I have been told that the firm had moved in the mid 19th century and continued to make metalworking machine.... this is the first I have seen! Their original lathes are quite rare and worth a bunch.... I think this one sold for $ 250,000 many years ago..... here it is shown in the auction catalog and Bergeron's book! As I recall it is dated 1796 and signed 'a la Flotte de l'Angleterre' ....... at the sign of the Three English Ships..... their shop was right across the street from the gates to the palace of justice on the little island in the center of Paris.... kind of between the Louvre and Notre Dame

    This thread has more about them..... http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...ection-231792/




    A question to the original poster.... what does "J Marechal Sn" mean on the name plate? Is this a street in Paris? I couldn't find it......... Thanks

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    hello rivett608

    what was the name of the successor from 1890 (JULES MARECHAL Sr for Successor)
    the store opened its doors in 1764 in the street Barrillerie
    that no longer exists then to 1800, landscape street Sebastopol in Paris
    thank you for your help

    fthi

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    What is your reference to the 1764 date? I have always wondered how long they were at the address on the rue de Barrillerie..... do you have links to a web site or something with this information? I would like to read more about them. Thanks

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    Here is a document that an invoice or I stressed (HOUSE FOUNDED IN 1764)
    picture is not very clear but visiblela-flotte-angleterre-1764.jpg

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    WOW That is wonderful! Do you own that document? Is there anyway to get a clearer scan or photo of it? If you do not own it where is it?.... The reason I am so excited is this has information I have never seen before and I have been researching this firm for over 20 years. I have always known Bergeron started much earlier than the first date seen in print from 1792, but this now gives proof of a real date of 1764.

    Thank you so much!

    On Edit.... I found it! It was on German ebay...... and I just bought it so I will post a clearer scan when it gets here. I also bought the other one too..... Again Thank you so much for the lead to this..... I owe you a bottle of wine!

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    happy to have you help solve your research
    I am interested in a clearer picture for my curiosity
    see you soon

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    The came the other day, A correction from above...... the date is 1784..... the photo above is a little hard to make out. I will post good images of these bill heads soon. Thanks again for the tip off.

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    hello
    I am interested to know the history of this brand very old and fascinating
    thank you in advance for the document

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    Here are some close-ups of the bill heads....






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    Isn't "The English Fleet" a bizarre name for a French company? Or am I missing something... (not that my French is very good) but relations between France and England were not too good in 1784, got a lot worse in 1792 and probably didn't start to get better until the 1850s. Even in the 90s, when those receipts were written, they weren't all that good.

    Is there any known reason for the name? Or, was the name of the firm different in 1784? Notice they are on the Boulevard Sebastopol which was named for the famous seige in the Crimean War. The city fell to a combined British and French army so British credit would have been better in Paris in the mid-1850s than any time in the previous century.

    Its great stuff by the way... thanks for sharing it.


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