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Lathes In 1920s Australian Car Workshop

plannerpower

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Location
Newcastle, Australia
A weekend Australian newspaper had a story about a remarkable lady, Alice Anderson, who ran an all-female car repair workshop in Melbourne in the 1920s.

I'd not heard of her but a search found some information, including this;

How Australia's female garage owner Alice Anderson helped change social attitudes - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

The weekend newspaper article contained this great photo;



A better resolution file is here;

https://i.postimg.cc/Y2bGsL5g/Pic.jpg

I'm curious about the makes of the lathes; can anyone identify them?

In 1920s Australia, it seems likely to me that they would have been of British origin but there were certainly plenty of US machines here then.
 
The bigger lathe is typical of those produced by countless UK makers. I can't read the name on the bed well enough to narrow it down.

The smaller lathe was by Drummond Bros. The 3.5" centre height lathe was cheap, and sold in vast numbers. Advertising from 1909 or earlier targeted motorists, to allow them to do their own repairs, independent of rip-off garages.

Drummond Brothers

Captain Scott took one of the 3.5" lathes to the South Pole on his 1912 expedition. It was featured in an excellent thread started here by Lathefan some years ago. Large numbers of these lathes were also ordered by the Admiralty for use in submarines and destroyers in WW1.

Whoops! I forgot about the oracle:-

Drummond Lathes Home Page
 
The smaller lathe was by Drummond Bros. Cheap, and sold in vast numbers. Advertising from 1909 or earlier targeted motorists, to allow them to do their own repairs, independent of rip-off garages.

Drummond Brothers

The bigger lathe is typical of those produced by countless UK makers. I can't read the name on the bed well enough to narrow it down.

Milnes and a myriad of English makers made lathes in the pattern of the larger machine. Quite plain in specification and finish but very capable at carbon steel speeds.
Drummond targeted motorists especially with their double-height bed models and the 5" double height bed model served on ASME field service trucks during the Great War.
 
Thanks to you both; it's especially nice to receive a reply from Asquith.

Tony's site confirms Drummond (no surprise that Asquith was correct); the characteristic slot in the tray for the gut-drive (not used in the photo) is clearly visible.

I have no particular reason for wanting to know; just my perennial curiosity. :)

Amongst other things, Alice Anderson and a friend, Jessie Webb, drove an Austin 7 from Melbourne to Alice Springs in 1926; it took them three weeks, a very good trip considering the roads/tracks of the day and the tiny "Baby Austin".

This remarkable lady's equally-remarkable life ended sadly as the link relates.
 
The ladies appear to be dressed in chauffeur's attire; the garage ran a fleet of hire-cars and the photo was probably posed.

The two on the left could be identical twins; they are so alike that I even wondered briefly if the photo was a multiple-exposure.

The lady on the right seems to be wearing overalls; it's unlikely that she could have held that pose for a multiple exposure photo.
 
In my younger working days (1960's), I started out in a garage in my hometown that had been in business since the 1920's. They had an armature lathe much like the lathes shown, except it was much smaller. I would guess that the ladies were dressed up for "photo" day.

JH
 
I really enjoyed this post. It is quite a contrast to today where gasoline (petrol) is sold mainly at "convenience stores" and if a customer needs air in their tires, they have to put a few quarters into the slot to get the compressed air to turn on for a set time.

When I was a kid, a few of the bigger repair garages in Brooklyn, NY, had machine shops. Usually, this consisted of an engine lathe (something on the order of a South Bend or other cone-drive lathe), drill press, and specialized automotive machine tools like a valve grinder, commutator cutter, brake shoe arc sander, brake and clutch "lining" riveter, and a shop press.

There were gasoline stations who did very minor adjustments and repairs, and there were repair garages who might have gas pumps out front on their lot. In addition, there were specialized automotive rebuilding shops- there were carburetor shops and "auto electric" or "ignition" shops as well as radiator shops. When I was a small boy, some of the automotive specialty shops used 3 wheel Harleys or Indians to make pickups and deliveries. Those were fancy vehicles, spit shined, with the name of the shop lettered on them. The driver/delivery man (pre helmet laws) often wore a uniform consisting of a shirt with his name and the shop name, "flat har" (like a military or policeman's hat), and a neck tie.

On the local filling station lots, in the 50's, I can recall seeing the attendants wearing "matched workset" type uniforms. In 1973, I was first arriving at Waterford, CT to report to work on the construction site of a nuclear powerplant (Millstone Unit II). As I drove towards Niantic, CT, I needed both gasoline and directions. I saw a small two-pump filling station with a quaint little stone office having a neatly curved roof-line. A man stood outside the office, and I stopped for gas and directions. The man was wearing the full uniform of a gas station attendant of a bygone era. Flat uniform type hat, khaki shirt with a bow tie, khaki jhodpurs or similar. He gave me directions to the powerplant access road, and I remarked about his attire. He said his father had first become a "dealer" ( I think it might have been Shell) in the 'teens, and he had come to work for his father in the 'twenties and been there ever since. He filled my car's tank, cleaned the windshield, asked if he could check the oil and tires. It was the last time I ever got that kind of service on a gas station, let alone by anyone in a uniform.

Of course, we had the television commercials for Texaco, "Always trust your car to the man who wears the star... the big bright Texaco Star", which had actors portraying well groomed, courteous, and uniformed service station personnel. In actuality, even in the 50's, for the most part the filling station and garage personnel was often wearing greasy work clothes, and could be counted upon to be ungrammatic and brusque in their speech, often hollering to their buddies in language laden with words your mother would not want you to hear. The office walls of those garages or filling stations had a pinup calendar or two, and there was often a back seat from an old car with the shop's watchdog lounging on it. Neckties or bowties, flat uniform caps, clear and mannerly speech were off the table at that point.

Another thing that is long gone, if not forgotten, are the "coin changers" which the filling station attendants sometimes wore on their belts. When I was a kid, the local ice-cream vendors and some of the filling station attendants in busy stations wore coin changers on their belts. These were neat mechanisms, having vertical tubes holding pennies, nickels, dimes, and quarters. Each of these tubes had a spring loaded ring which dispensed one of each coin when the tab for it was depressed. A person with one of those coin changers could rapidly make change without looking, knowing which tabs to press and figuring the change in their heads just that quick. Of course, with gasoline going for under 40 cents a gallon and people paying cash (credit cards being an extreme rarity), the coin changers were standard with many busy filling station attendants.

About 40 + years ago, my late father was at some yard sale and saw one of those coin changers. Dad also got a tin box full of adjustable reamers with conical guide bushings. Dad did not know what those were for, but I did- those were valve guide reamers from an old repair garage. I think Dad paid under a buck for it as the seller really did not understand nor appreciate what either the reamers or the coin changer was. Dad discovered a couple of bucks in change still in that coin changer. He asked me to make a mounting stand for it, and kept it on his dresser with change from his pockets and drew what coin he needed if he were going to be feeding parking meters. That coin changer was made (or made for) J.L. Galef, of NY City- a firm I associated with sporting firearms and importing them. I remember when Dad showed me the coin changer, it was something we had not seen in a few years. Dad always appreciated a neat mechanism, and this has it. Given the fact that Dad had found that box of adjustable reamers, we figured the coin changer came from an old automotive garage or filling station. Some of us are old enough to remember when 5 bucks worth of gasoline would get a bit more than half a tank, but we are also old enough to remember what wages were at that time.

The days when filling station attendants and garage mechanics wore uniforms or dressed like the ladies in the picture in this thread are long gone. While some people will mourn the passing of those days, who really wants to eat asbestos dust from arcing brake shoes or blowing out bell housings when replacing a clutch disc, or swim in gasoline and solvents when dipping carburetors or cleaning parts ? It's funny how this thread brings back the unique smells of an oldtime automotive repair garage, punctuated by the distinctive sound of a slow-turning air compressor or the blasts of air when the vehicle lifts are worked. I keep an old time "oil bottle" in the garage on a window sill. My wife got it for me at a yard sale, as I'd told her how my father kept a wire carrier with oil bottles in the shed behind our house. Dad had the oil bottles filled at the local Shell station from one of those hand oil pumps with the crank, the kind that is on a square steel tank. Dad had a '46 Chevy which was an oil hog, and checking the oil and topping it up was something I knew from the time I was old enough to walk and recognize as much. Dad traded that '46 Chevy on a new 1954 Chevy, and the oil bottles disappeared. Dad progressed to buying his engine oil in cans and had a spout he stabbed into the cans instead. Now, when I take that old oil bottle off the window sill and take a sniff, it takes me back to my early boyhood. Different times when people routinely checked their own car's engine oil level and knew about things like that. Different times as well, when garages not too far removed from the one in this thread were fairly common. I had a fellow telling me that the newest passenger vehicles are being sold and delivered without any spare tire whatsovever- not even the "donut" !
Apparently, an aerosol can of tire inflater/sealant is all the OEM's are furnishing, nor is there room for the spare tire. Then again, how many people nowadays know how to change their own tires by the road side ?

It was a different era when the garage in this photo was operating. In that era, things like getting a driver's license was quite an undertaking on the one hand, but lacking in formality on the other- at least in the USA. I have had old timers (long deceased) tell me how they bought their first cars in the 'twenties. No license, no insurance needed. Some of these old timers were immigrants who saved up to buy their first car, and were taught to drive it by a mechanic at the dealer's. Once they knew the rudiments of driving, with the light vehicle traffic of the times, they were good to go. One oldtimer whom I regarded as my grandpa was an Italian immigrant. A good friend of my father's and the only grandpa I really knew or had. This oldtimer was driving into his nineties, and he told me how he was taught to drive by the dealer's mechanic, and never really had a NY Driver's License. I forget how they caught up with him, but it was an interesting set of circumstances as this fellow suddenly had to go deal with DMV and found it totally bewildering. The mention that the garage in this thread ran a school for motorists rang a bell with me, and recalled my memory of that old timer to mind. He had bought a new Buick in the early 'thirties, and been taught to maintain and drive it by the dealer. As a result, every time he went out in the morning to go anywhere in that Buick (which I rode in as a kid), he'd "check-em up-a da 'wat, turn the grease cup on da wat' pump... check-em up-a da oil.... checkem-upa da belt.... look at all tires, then, put the shift in neutral, set the brake, pull out the choke, turn on the ignish' and step ona da start'.... " Grandpa had a large vegetable garden behind his house, and on part of it, he'd dug a pit with a set of heavy planks and additional reinforcement. He'd run that Buick onto those planks once every week and give things a good going over. Grandpa was not a mechanic, he was a construction laborer and concrete finisher. The Buick was the only car he ever owned, and he had it until he died, well into his nineties. He did what the dealer's mechanics had taught him to do, and his rules for driving were pretty simple: leave plenty of room, signal turns, and don't drive any faster than what traffic was doing. He never had an accident with that Buick, while traffic in Brooklyn increased and cars went faster even on the local streets. A lot to be said for the way the old garages trained a "motorist".
 
Joe's comments ring true about "Shell Oil", both the station he stopped at, and the above
linked Australian one.

I had a friend (passed away sadly) that owned a Gas station on the interstate.
He got a Shell dealership, and told me of the requirements to become and maintain
a Shell dealership. Jumped thru allot of hoops, had to spend allot of money.

Spot un-announced inspections of the restrooms, cleanliness of the whole place,
the look of the grounds, advertising signage, etc. were ongoing thru out
the dealership contract.
 
About those "spare-tire-in-a-can" products..... Kia was (IIRC) doing that a few years ago, and I was at the tire dealer when someone brought in a car with a tire that had been done to, to get the tire replaced.

The dealer did it, but charged about double plus a hazmat charge on account of the repair gunk in the tire. I have seen at least one other place that had a sign up saying they would not work on a wheel where the tire had had that stuff put in.

Might be a bit rough on the drivers for a while.

And, of course, often the tire just shreds if it loses air on the highway. No can-o-gunk will help THAT.

I had to bulldoze the dealer pretty hard to get a "real" spare when I bought the pickup years ago, the makers supplied it with one of those "donut" tires.. I now keep two spares in the front of the bed..... Needed two a while back and didn;t have but one.... and the under-bed storage is just stupid, as well as very easy to steal. mechanism jams up with road gunk, and won;t work when you need it
 
Joe / JST -

Yep, as usual you have it figured out. As to the pickup spare tire - only time I saw one work easily was when I got rear ended while stopped to make a turn. Impact caused the cable to snap and the wheel/tire - along with a lot of mud (truck probably had 150K miles on it at that point) - hit the road. Right in front of a friend's house who got a good laugh watching the process.

Joe's post reminds me of two things. I never knew my Dad's father - he died 6 years before I was born. But a guy he worked with during the Depression told me of the day they got their 'chauffer license' as NY then called a CDL. Test took place 15 miles away in Elmira, NY - nearest large town. Examiner lined up about 10 trucks with drivers in them on one end of town, Church Street. He stood on the running board of the first truck. Driver had to start from a stop sign and in the next block start out, go up a couple gears and then back down, coming to a stop at end of next block. Examiner hopped off the running board, went to next truck. Repeat until all were 'tested'. Then my grandfather hauled eggs to NYC, cabbage south and citrus fruit north, etc. Somehow survived the Depression until the RR picked back up and he was recalled as a fireman.

Same time Joe was buying that gas in CT I was stationed at Fort Hood. On many weekends we (wife, son and I) would go to Austin to visit her brother and his wife. I can remember buying gas for 22 cents a gallon at a cheap place on the north edge of Austin. Fill up the VW for $2 - and then came the gas crisis.

We were still using the glass oil bottles and carrier when I was a kid, with a 55 gallon barrel of oil in the barn to keep all the antique equipment we ran operating.

Dale
 
Dale:

Funny little story about the pickup truck spare tires. A few years back, I was driving home in my pickup with my Lincoln engine driven welder on the bed. Had a few tools, some stick electrode, and very luckily- my shield and gloves. I was planning to take the welder off the pickup that day, but had a few local errands to run.

As I turned into our road, I happened to see what looked like a "live trap" for relocating a bear. Not uncommon in our area. This type trap is usually painted green and is made of about 48" diameter steel culvert or similar pipe, and is mounted on a single axle trailer. What I saw about 1/4 mile up the road I was turning off of looked like a live trap for relocating a bear (or euthanizing nuisance/problem bears). Curious to see if they had one of our local bears in the trap, I drove over to it. I found a gaggle of men in the road, including a neighbor who, to be charitable, "is not wrapped too tight". I recognized a younger man as a landscaper, and he greeted me. He and my son had gone thru grade, middle and HS together. This guy still greeted me as "Mr Michaels". By that point, I realized I was not seeing a live trap, but a fuel oil tank bound onto a single axle trailer. The landscaper told me he'd dug up the underground tank on the property of the neighbor who was not wrapped to tightly, and had set it on the HVAC contractor's trailer with his little "Terramite" backhoe/loader.

About then, the HVAC guy, an older man from up the road, said he was stuck because his pickup (a rust bucket Dodge Ram) had a flat tire and he could not get the spare to lower. Winch would only let the spare down just so far and then the wire rope was birds-nested or otherwise jammed up. The neighbor- from whose house the tank had been removed- was going into orbit, ranting about wanting to get the old underground fuel oil tank off his property since we are in the NYC Catskill Watershed area, and wanting to get the tank removed and away pronto. This neighbor went into his house and reappeared with a el-cheapo wood chisel and claw hammer and got under the HVAC guy's truck and started trying to cut the wire rope and drop the spare. We all stood there kind of laughing about it, and finally, after listening to much cussing and fuming from the neighbor, I told him to get his ass out from under the truck before he had the spare land on him and kill him. I also said he was not going to do much with his Chinese wood chisel and claw hammer- at which point, he became insulted and ranted and carried on even worse. I then said I could get the spare down, but it would destroy the wire rope on the spare tire carrier. The HVAC guy said he did not care how I did it, just do it so he could get his spare tire on the truck and get done with the job. I asked if he had a fire extinguisher, which he did, and I had him get it ready. The landscaper got an extinguisher off his own truck. I said I'd use the welder to burn thru the wire rope and drop the spare, asking for a concrete block or something to put under the spare so it did not have far to fall.

By this point, the neighbor was beyond being in orbit, hollering that I was going to blow the place up and similar. I told him to go sit on the roadside and shut up and that it was not my first rodeo. I hinted that if he did not do as I said, he would be forcibly put on his butt. I cranked up the welder and set the heat to the max, clipped my work clamp as close as possible, and got my shield down. I took a stick of E 6010 and drew a hell of an arc, and ka-boom, down went the spare. No fire, no problems. I got the spare out from under the truck and the HVAC guy and the landscaper and his guys quickly changed the tire. The HVAC guy wanted to pay my for my work, but I declined it and said us good old boys are an endangered specie with the new "citidiots" and would be artists taking over the region. The landscape guy and the HVAC guy and his men rolled up my lead and picked up for me before I could do it myself. The neighbor was acting like this was now business as usual and never offered me a cold drink of water or to come into his house to wash up. The HVAC guy is in his seventies and told me he was trading that rust-bucket Dodge Ram against some newer pickup, so could care less about the spare tire carrier.

The neighbor is battier than ever, and I try to avoid him.
 
Further to the change making machines mentioned by Joe.

Back around 1968-1971 when I had a Saturday / Sunday and holidays job on the pumps at a local filling station / one lift tyre place we had a more sophisticated version. For a while. This one was an electrical sorter /change maker device hooked up to the till. We tossed any coins in the top, it sorted them into separate towers and dispensed the correct change after we had rung up the bill and tendered money on the till. Lasted about two years before it broke down once to often and got binned. Think the theory was that it would be quicker and less likely to make mistakes than the guys'n gal on the pumps. Given the number of teenagers that went through the place on evening and weekend rosters there might have been some point. Evening 6 till 10, Saturday 7.30 till 10 and Sunday 9 till 8 there would be only one adult around riding herd on however many kids were needed to make up the numbers. Most of them didn't stick around very long. I started at minimum permitted age, 14 according to the books (reality was more like 13) and hung around for a couple of years after I got a proper job at 17. Most kids didn't manage more than 6 months. Saturday mornings were always a scramble with 7 of us rushing around and lining up to take turns on the till.

If felt really strange dropping back to one job as I'd always had a paper round as well as the garage gig. Strictly against school rules. Grammar school boys weren't allowed to do paper round or have side jobs according to the headmaster. Lowered the tone or something. Snowy winter mornings could be a bit of a panic with late paper deliveries and harder cycling conditions cutting into the window for catching the school bus. Naturally I signed up for the longest round going quite well out into the sticks with some fairly serious hills. Fortunately bad weather often made the bus late.

In the UK garages often had glass oil bottles with a label carrying their name stuck on. I have one my father kept from when he was on the pumps at a small two pump forecourt in front of a small Austin dealers. VFM motors of Crowborough. Long, long gone. Also got a couple of the felt mats that used to be popped over the pump nozzle before shoving it in the tank to mop up any spills. No auto shut off in them days. And some of the yellow-orange dusters with logos left. Couple of Austin, couple of VFM. Why were they always that colour? I guess the full can of lever arm damper oil is long past its sell by date.

Clive
 
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Strictly against school rules. Grammar school boys weren't allowed to do paper round or have side jobs according to the headmaster. Lowered the tone or something.
Grammar school and you work with your hands? How you have fallen!

[/QUOTE]And sume of the yellow-orange dusters with logos left. Couple of Austin, couple of VFM. Why were they always that colour? I guess the full can of lever arm damper oil is long past its sell by date[/QUOTE]

I've a couple left still, Mobil and Europa- both that murky orange colour. I do recall a white one but can't remember the brand. They have gone the way of most of the advertising complimentary items, only the calendars have survived for now.
 
Captain Scott took one of the 3.5" lathes to the South Pole on his 1912 expedition.

More correctly, took one to his base in Antarctica, which base was a hell of a long way from the South Pole.

Pardon the pedantry but I spent a fair chunk of my working life in Antarctic waters and this is most definitely a distinction with a difference.

PDW
 








 
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