12" Davis Machine Tool "Liberty Lathe"

hlr270 · Dec 27, 2008

Hello, I'm new to this forum and did a quick search and did not find anything related to my questions regarding my lathe.
What Iknow about this lathe is simply that it is a Davis Machine Tool Co. 12" X 36" metel lathe. It has a plaque that says "Liberty Lathe Designed for U.S.A." on the front of the gear box. The original motor has been gutted and a second motor has been added. It drives the the lathe through a shaft via V-belt which in turn drives a chain drive up to the gearbox. Everything functions though I have not turned anything on it yet so I do not know how accurate it is. The bed show wear near the chuck end but are in good or better condition further along them. If anyone here has any information about this type of lathe or the Davis Tool Co. I would be very happy to learn more about both. Sorry about the big pictures I'll figure out how to do thumbnails ASAP.

johnoder · Dec 27, 2008

Apron is a tribute to Series "O" South Bend

John Oder

L Vanice · Dec 27, 2008

Cope's lathe book says Davis Machine Tool Co. was created in 1915 from a reorganization of the W.P. Davis Machine Co. of Rochester, NY.

The center pedestal design is quite unusual. It would be good for uneven or moving floors, perhaps.

Could this be a lathe designed for use on WW2 liberty ships? Or maybe, "Designed for United States Army," like one of those trucks with a mobile machine shop?

The surviving liberty ship has an ordinary South Bend lathe.
http://www.oceansart.us/FreePhotosSS_John_W_BrownLibertyShip/images/14.html

And this WW2 army mobile shop has an ordinary lathe bed with chip pan. The plaque on the end of the lathe says "War Finish" and some other stuff I could not read. Note the pair of face plates, indicating a gap bed lathe.
http://www.history.army.mil/photos/WWII/Preps/SC180809.jpg

Larry

abarnsley · Dec 28, 2008

I think WWI

I think I saw a Similar one on a Submarine or Ship Picture Somwhere..

Everyone sees Liberty and thinks WWII Ship. But name was used on WWI Standardized Truck :

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=8126

My Guess a Standardized Design For Military Use...

Was a Popular Name in WWI

Mike C. · Dec 28, 2008

And also the Liberty aircraft engine, I agree... very likely just post WWI. I am figuring 1930s or so because of the headstock design. Remember, the WWI vintage L&S gearhead (Selective Head) was considered extremely advanced for its time. Most were still cone pulleys.

This pedestal design is extremely odd and rare in a USA lathe. Looks like a real solid chunk of iron, though!

Dennis Turk · Dec 28, 2008

johnoder said:
Apron is a tribute to Series "O" South Bend

John Oder

Hi John

Actually this apron looks much more like a Champion Blower and forge 10 inch than it does a SB. But then I think all of these designs came from Flather."-))))

Turk

Rob in NH · Nov 28, 2009

WP Davis

I had an earlier W.P. Davis Lathe a few years back.. Circa 1912
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKmOxxKwGow&feature=channel

There is also a few pictures at the end of a really vintage Drill Press they once made..

Yours looks like a great restoration project.. keep at it !

Mine is gone now.. Learned for HOURS on that thing and made some great little projects with it.. Now i have a 1946 South Bend..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvGmZSrnadM

I also have a 1946 Delta Bandsaw that I'm converting over to do Steel..

I don't do China machines anymore.. there's just no HERITAGE or SOUL in the things!

Rob

hlr270 · Nov 28, 2009

Rob, Great videos really enjoyed the old factory pictures. I have been making small parts for some of my motorcycle projects lately on mine. As each new project comes up my collection of tooling increases as does the fun and skill levels I am recalling things I learned years ago and until lately haven't used them. Looking forward to cutting threads soon.

rvannatta · Nov 28, 2009

the use of "Liberty" in World war I was an exercise in political correctness.

the Germans were very unpopular in WWI, and lots of things with german names
were renamed 'Liberty'.

P10RS · Aug 14, 2018

Just a short response to a very old thread concerning the "LIBERTY LATHE" made by the Davis Machine Tool Co Inc of Rochester, NY. I recently acquired one of these interesting lathes and have spent considerable time trying to find information about them on the web with little success until recently. HERE is a link to a a digitized copy of AMERICAN MACHINIST from June 12, 1919, vol. 50 #24 which has an article and pictures of the "LIBERTY LATHE" .The article starts on pdf page 1292 and ends 3 pages later. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll post a few pics of my lathe which is in amazing condition considering it is almost 100 years old.

American Machinist - Google Books

Ray Behner · Aug 15, 2018

P10RS said:
Just a short response to a very old thread concerning the "LIBERTY LATHE" made by the Davis Machine Tool Co Inc of Rochester, NY. I recently acquired one of these interesting lathes and have spent considerable time trying to find information about them on the web with little success until recently. HERE is a link to a a digitized copy of AMERICAN MACHINIST from June 12, 1919, vol. 50 #24 which has an article and pictures of the "LIBERTY LATHE" .The article starts on pdf page 1292 and ends 3 pages later. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll post a few pics of my lathe which is in amazing condition considering it is almost 100 years old.

American Machinist - Google Books

Welcome to PM. Yes, definitely post some pics. Maybe put it in a new thread.

hlr270 · Aug 15, 2018

Thanks for the info I did not realize that my lathe is that old and that makes it even more impressive in that it still works very well. I am collecting the change gears for it to cut threads both standard and metric. I would like to see some pics of yours so do post them up. Thanks again HLRembe

ClappedOutBport · Jan 30, 2021

One of these for sale in Sylacauga, AL.

Machinist Equipment for sale - Measuring Tools & Sensors - Sylacauga, Alabama | Facebook Marketplace

M4J0R T0M · Jan 30, 2021

ClappedOutBport said:
One of these for sale in Sylacauga, AL.

Machinist Equipment for sale - Measuring Tools & Sensors - Sylacauga, Alabama | Facebook Marketplace

I'm local to this lathe and went and looked at it today, considering purchasing it. It would be my first metal lathe purchase so I was coming here to do some research and see if it was something I should consider. I was surprised to the listing had made it here and to see that there was actually some info on the machine. I read the linked article up above and it answered some of my questions but I have some more that were brought up by the inspection. I hope this is the appropriate place to ask them. If not, please let me know and I'll put this some place else.

The machine was powered up and ran in both forward and reverse. Overall it seemed to be in pretty good shape until I tried to engage the feed drive. It appears there are some broken and or missing parts (gears) that engage the external gear set. My question regarding that is fairly simple. Is that something that can be repaired fairly easily or inexpensively? I'm worried about parts availability considering the age of the machine. And I don't possess the knowledge or tools to fabricate any parts needed so I would be stuck paying someone to rebuild it.

My other concern was the transmission lever on the headstock. With it engaged in either direction it kept the lathe from turning. Admittedly, this could have been user error, but I'm also wondering if there was something wrong and how I could go about diagnosing it. Lastly, at an asking price of $750 is it worth trying to bargin to account for the issues and needed repairs or should I just walk away? Keep in mind this would be my first ever lathe purchase. I'll attach some pics of what I'm talking about. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Edit: I tried to upload pics but I think I got a message saying they had to be approved by a moderator first.

Joe Michaels · Jan 30, 2021

We've had some discussion of the Liberty lathes on the 'board in the past. In a nutshell: the Liberty lathes were designed to be self-contained units. These lathes were designed during WWI, with the idea they could be easily setup and used under field conditions.

The center pedestal made the lathe easy to setup and move, with less chance of breaking the more usual cast iron legs. "Liberty", as noted, was a popular name for things and places during WWI. The Liberty ships did not come into being until WWII. As noted, there was a very strong anti-German sentiment in the USA during WWI. A lot of things with German names were re-named. Notably, an attempt was made to rename sauerkraut as 'Liberty Cabbage'. Even at the height of the anti German sentiments of WWI and the renaming of things, "Liberty Cabbage" never caught on. On the other hand, names of streets with German names were changed. In Brooklyn, a street named Hamburg Avenue became Wilson Avenue, and some other major thorofare was renamed Liberty Avenue.

In the WWI era, most machine tools were designed for line shaft drive. In a 'behind the lines' field machine shop, there were not going to be line shafts and maybe not even a building to hang line shafts in. The Liberty lathe could be set down on anything remotely flat, such as compacted soil or some timbers laid on the ground. The wide single base on the original pedestal allowed these lathes to be set down with a relatively small foot print. Power would have been provided by engine driven generators, as was typical in field or temporary installations. Another place these lathes saw use was in moveable machine shops setup in boxcars.

Davis built a few other machine tools which included a shaper. I do not think they were a major machine tool builder.

M4J0R T0M · Jan 30, 2021

Untitled by Tom Francis, on Flickr

M4J0R T0M · Jan 30, 2021

Untitled by Tom Francis, on Flickr

M4J0R T0M · Jan 30, 2021

Joe Michaels said:
We've had some discussion of the Liberty lathes on the 'board in the past. In a nutshell: the Liberty lathes were designed to be self-contained units. These lathes were designed during WWI, with the idea they could be easily setup and used under field conditions.

The center pedestal made the lathe easy to setup and move, with less chance of breaking the more usual cast iron legs. "Liberty", as noted, was a popular name for things and places during WWI. The Liberty ships did not come into being until WWII. As noted, there was a very strong anti-German sentiment in the USA during WWI. A lot of things with German names were re-named. Notably, an attempt was made to rename sauerkraut as 'Liberty Cabbage'. Even at the height of the anti German sentiments of WWI and the renaming of things, "Liberty Cabbage" never caught on. On the other hand, names of streets with German names were changed. In Brooklyn, a street named Hamburg Avenue became Wilson Avenue, and some other major thorofare was renamed Liberty Avenue.

In the WWI era, most machine tools were designed for line shaft drive. In a 'behind the lines' field machine shop, there were not going to be line shafts and maybe not even a building to hang line shafts in. The Liberty lathe could be set down on anything remotely flat, such as compacted soil or some timbers laid on the ground. The wide single base on the original pedestal allowed these lathes to be set down with a relatively small foot print. Power would have been provided by engine driven generators, as was typical in field or temporary installations. Another place these lathes saw use was in moveable machine shops setup in boxcars.

Davis built a few other machine tools which included a shaper. I do not think they were a major machine tool builder.

That's pretty neat info, thanks!

ClappedOutBport · Jan 30, 2021

M4J0R T0M said:
I'm local to this lathe and went and looked at it today, considering purchasing it. It would be my first metal lathe purchase so I was coming here to do some research and see if it was something I should consider. I was surprised to the listing had made it here and to see that there was actually some info on the machine. I read the linked article up above and it answered some of my questions but I have some more that were brought up by the inspection. I hope this is the appropriate place to ask them. If not, please let me know and I'll put this some place else.

The machine was powered up and ran in both forward and reverse. Overall it seemed to be in pretty good shape until I tried to engage the feed drive. It appears there are some broken and or missing parts (gears) that engage the external gear set. My question regarding that is fairly simple. Is that something that can be repaired fairly easily or inexpensively? I'm worried about parts availability considering the age of the machine. And I don't possess the knowledge or tools to fabricate any parts needed so I would be stuck paying someone to rebuild it.

My other concern was the transmission lever on the headstock. With it engaged in either direction it kept the lathe from turning. Admittedly, this could have been user error, but I'm also wondering if there was something wrong and how I could go about diagnosing it. Lastly, at an asking price of $750 is it worth trying to bargin to account for the issues and needed repairs or should I just walk away? Keep in mind this would be my first ever lathe purchase. I'll attach some pics of what I'm talking about. Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Edit: I tried to upload pics but I think I got a message saying they had to be approved by a moderator first.

Cool!

I don't think it's a bad deal if it's in good shape. Read some of the advice first, and try to bring someone along with you that isn't emotionally invested at all if you will struggle with that yourself. Don't get burned like me.

End train gears messed up? Not great, but may not be too expensive to find new ones. Then again, it might. It's certainly a lot of bargaining power. $750 is too much for a 100 year old lathe that will need new parts, IMO. Pics would be good, but I think you have to have 10 posts, or host them elsewhere til then.

Transmission lever on the heatstock may be for a backgear, where you have to disengage the bullgear from the belt drive. That wouldn't be surprising, a lot of lathes are like that and the bullgear pin is often pretty subtle. I'm not sure how the transmission on this thing is setup.

M4J0R T0M · Jan 30, 2021

ClappedOutBport said:
Cool!

I don't think it's a bad deal if it's in good shape. Read some of the advice first, and try to bring someone along with you that isn't emotionally invested at all if you will struggle with that yourself. Don't get burned like me.

End train gears messed up? Not great, but may not be too expensive to find new ones. Then again, it might. It's certainly a lot of bargaining power. $750 is too much for a 100 year old lathe that will need new parts, IMO. Pics would be good, but I think you have to have 10 posts, or host them elsewhere til then.

Transmission lever on the heatstock may be for a backgear, where you have to disengage the bullgear from the belt drive. That wouldn't be surprising, a lot of lathes are like that and the bullgear pin is often pretty subtle. I'm not sure how the transmission on this thing is setup.

I tried to add pics to this post but I got a message saying a moderator had to approve them. You're probably right about the post count. I'll go back and read the rules a little better. I do have some really good pics though.

You mentioned replacing the end train gears. Where would I look for replacement parts? Ebay and google haven't turned up much of anything so far.

12" Davis Machine Tool "Liberty Lathe"

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