Leblond Regal 13 - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 29 of 29
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Shandaken, NY, USA
    Posts
    4,156
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1043
    Likes (Received)
    6450

    Default

    The OP's lathe has a friction clutch on the headstock drive pulley. In my opinion, this is an added advantage for the method proposed by borne2fly. I'd suggest getting the lathe to run under power. Once that has been accomplished, see if there is a "slip zone" in the clutch. This is akin to starting a vehicle with a manual transmission on a hill, or making a smooth start- it is a matter of "feathering" the clutch into engagement. See if the clutch control on the lathe allows for some of this "feathering" rather than being simply engaged or disengaged. If the clutch can be feathered or kept in a kind of "partial engagement", this will lessen the chances of damaging the gears with borne2fly's method. Putting the lathe in its lowest spindle speed and running it under power produces the maximum amount of torque. With the method borne2fly suggests, what the result will be is a hell of an impact or shock into the gearing in the headstock. If the backplate threads are really frozen onto the spindle, the result could be some busted gear teeth.

    I consider the method of trying to unstick the chuck backplate under power drive as a risky proposition given the delicate or light nature of the headstock gearing.
    If the clutch could be feathered so it is on the edge of slipping, even under no load, that is about all the power I'd put through the headstock to try to break loose the backplate from the spindle. I've read of people breaking chucks loose from threaded spindle noses by running the lathe in reverse at very low speed, and jamming a block of wood between a chuck jaw and the rear bedway. Again, risky business. It might be OK if you are doing it on a "cone drive" lathe with a flat belt that might slip, but it is still a hell of a jarring through the back gears.

    This matter has been one of those conundrums I've turned over in my own mind since I have my own 13" Roundhead Regal lathe. The big problem is how the spindle of a 13" Roundhead Regal lathe might be clamped and locked independently of the headstock gearing. On my own 13" Roundhead Regal lathe, about 1 3/4" of spindle projects from the drive end of the headstock. If the belt guard, drive pulley, and gear guard were removed, this would give full access to that portion of the spindle. A split clamp would then be secured to that portion of the spindle. The split clamp should be made of aluminum, which is softer than the spindle and able to deform slightly if needed. The split clamp consists of a block of aluminum bored to a close fit on the spindle, then split along the centerline. A little clearance is opened up at this split joint, and the clamp blocks are drilled for bolts- the heavier the better. At least 1/2" diameter would be where I'd start.

    Bear with me as the matter is not so simple as it sounds. A big problem with trying to break loose stuck threads, or threads made up tight "and then some" is the need for either a lot more torque than was needed to drive things together, or torque + impact. I speak from years of experience in the powerplants where we routinely had to break apart studbolts that were made up using slugging wrenches and 16 or 25 lb hammers to get a required stretch on the studs. Getting the nuts broken loose so we could work on the turbines and generators was always a tough job. It invariably took a lot more to get things broken loose than to make them up. A big issue was "bounce". A slug wrench hit by a sledge hammer wanted to bounce on the nut. Bounce takes away some of the impact and torque produced. We used to drill a hole thru the shanks of the slug wrenches and tie a rope to it. When we were slugging on nuts, whether to break them loose or make them up, we always had another mechanic holding a hard strain on the rope.

    On one occasion, on our local tourist railroad, we had to remove and remake the joint between one cylinder head and the cylinder liner on an Alco 539 diesel engine in one of the locomotives. The Alco manual (written in the late 40's) states, as far as tightening the nuts on the head studs: "get a 4 foot long wrench and apply 200 lbs of force- this is what a normal mechanic can apply". OK, sounds easy enough, they were calling for 800 ft lbs of torque. We borrowed a torque multiplier that could transmit a maximum of 1200 ft lbs of torque and went to work. That torque multiplier, driven by a 3/4" square drive breaker bar would not budge the nuts. They were desperate to get that locomotive back up and running. The fellows did what the old ironworkers would do: "if it don't move, beat on it with a heavier hammer and put a cheater on it..." With a cheater pipe on the breaker bar, they succeeded in blowing up the torque multiplier. They found an identical new torque multiplier on ebay and returned it to the person they borrowed it from. I got a call, and the next thing was to get the Snapon salesman on board. He got us a much heavier torque multiplier.
    With a 1" torque wrench and that torque multiplier and some humungous sockets, we broke the head nuts loose. It took about 2000 ft-lbs to break them loose.

    We remade the head joint after relapping the top of the cylinder liner with a tool I'd made. We used a copper ring gasket, and the torque spec was upped to 1200 ft lbs. Having been around enough of this sort of work (more like being beaten over the head with it enough), I have learned several basic things, and one of them is it always takes more torque to break threads loose than make them up. If impact is used in making up the threads, by accident or design, getting things apart is going to usually be a whole order of magnitude harder.

    Getting back to your lathe, the idea is to secure the split clamp to the stub end of the spindle with a lever arm, and fix that lever arm so it can't move or "bounce" when you get to trying to break loose the backplate from the spindle.

    The split clamp is made up onto the stub end of the spindle, and a piece of stout angle iron perhaps 3 or 4 feet long is drilled so the clamp bolts pass thru one flange ("leg") of the angle. This angle iron gives you a "hold back" or "lever arm". Drill a hole in the outer end of this angle iron large enough for a binder hook or shackle pin. Cut a piece of wood, maybe a 4 x 4, long enough to serve as a column between the angle iron and the floor the lathe is sitting on. Put the levers on the headstock so the gears to drive the spindle are disengaged. Roll the spindle so the angle iron on the clamp block is horizontal and put your piece of 4 x 4 between it and the floor. Put a wedge bolt or similar anchor bolt into the floor (if concrete), or drive lag screws in if the floor is wood- these will hold a "clip angle"- a short piece of angle iron with a hole for a binder hook or a shackle pin. Using a ratchet strap binder, hook onto the end of the angle iron and the clip angle you've anchored to the floor and pull the binder tight. This jams the angle iron lever arm solidly onto the 4 x 4 post. Using the method I described in my previous post, with the "cheater bar" bolted to the backplate, you can now put on your cheater pipe, get someone with some weight ( or as we say in the workplace: "enough ass") to hang on it, and give the cheater bar bolted to the backplate a few solid blows with a steel hammer. This is a lot of work, but the headstock gearing is not subjected to any potentially damaging forces or impacts.

    I apply a little Moly based "Never Seez" to the spindle threads on my own 13" Roundhead Regal as well as to the face of the shoulder on the spindle where the backplate seats. I also make the chucks up on the spindle by hand and do not "spin them up" so they slam in hard. I run them up so things seat solidly with a bit of "solid force" applied by me to the chuck or faceplate to make sure it is on tight. No free play to allow the lathe to take up under power and jam things on tight.

  2. Likes RobbyWeeds liked this post
  3. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    port allen, louisiana usa
    Posts
    1,603
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default LeBlond Broken Feed Gears

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyWeeds View Post
    Thanks ramsay. Do you remember the pitch and angle of the internal gears or know the change gear pitch and angle? I'm still a beginner and dont push either my machines hard but I could definitely make a mistake somehow. My chuck is damn near welded on. I've tried almost everything when I searched removing chucks on this forum and still nothing. I'm pretty freaked out I'm going to blow out a gear. Maybe I just keep the 4 jaw on this? I don't have the outside jaws for this chuck so it would be a bummer never changing it. No idea what to do as of now.
    Here are the gears that gave it up in my 15" trainer.. I was boring an internal thread which was not blind and did not jamb anything at all.. I just heard a noise and that was it.....I suspect that the gears had been cracked from a prior crash from the previous owner probably threading as the lead screw has no safety clutch....
    I used my 15" trainer today to grind a few thou out of a new barrel bushing for my Colt Series 70... You just never know what you may have to use an old lathe for...
    Ramsay 1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20190405_141813.jpg   20190405_141809.jpg  
    Last edited by ramsay1; 04-05-2019 at 08:20 PM.

  4. Likes RobbyWeeds liked this post
  5. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    27
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    25
    Likes (Received)
    4

    Default

    Great info. Thanks everyone. I will update on the chuck. Lathe is under power and making awesome cuts. Night and day compared to the heavy 10

  6. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    port allen, louisiana usa
    Posts
    1,603
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyWeeds View Post
    Great info. Thanks everyone. I will update on the chuck. Lathe is under power and making awesome cuts. Night and day compared to the heavy 10
    My other lathe is a 16" Southbend with taper attachment, collet closer, etc.. I still think the little LeBlond is a dandy! Ramsay 1

  7. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    port allen, louisiana usa
    Posts
    1,603
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default 1942 LeBlond Trainer

    I machined two handles for my late model k K&T dividing head with my 1942 15 inch Leblond trainer.. The material is stainless and I used a cnmg 432 insert in an Aloris holder and an Aloris wedge type tool post...Speed was 500 rpm and the little lathe was really pushed at that speed...Those machines were designed for hi speed tooling but it did a pretty good job . I could not remove metal as fast with this machine.. Ramsay 1
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails stainless.jpg   lathe.jpg  

  8. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    1,559
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    473

    Default

    I have sold and repaired many small lathes,and Ive noticed that the broken gears shown only happen in lathes with spindle threads......which leads to my opinion the break is caused by removing chucks..........If a chuck is stuck ,first I used the old engine fitters dodge for removing a flywheel.........heat the rim quickly and hot as possible,and hopefully the expanding rim will pull the shaft hole open.........no use heating the lot.......just the rim,so you got to use a powerful flame.......If this doesnt work,then you must make up a plug and clamp for the spindle.....if its thick wall,just make a clamp......this is the same as a barrel vise for a gun barrel........then you can safely apply as much force as needed without gear teeth taking any load....(a Parmelee wrench may also fit sometimes ....a very handy tool)

  9. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    port allen, louisiana usa
    Posts
    1,603
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I have sold and repaired many small lathes,and Ive noticed that the broken gears shown only happen in lathes with spindle threads......which leads to my opinion the break is caused by removing chucks..........If a chuck is stuck ,first I used the old engine fitters dodge for removing a flywheel.........heat the rim quickly and hot as possible,and hopefully the expanding rim will pull the shaft hole open.........no use heating the lot.......just the rim,so you got to use a powerful flame.......If this doesnt work,then you must make up a plug and clamp for the spindle.....if its thick wall,just make a clamp......this is the same as a barrel vise for a gun barrel........then you can safely apply as much force as needed without gear teeth taking any load....(a Parmelee wrench may also fit sometimes ....a very handy tool)
    The broken gears I have shown are in the feed circuit in the head stock.. The spindle drive gears in the old LeBlond lathes such as these are quite robust...
    In the feed circuit just outside of the quick change box there is a safety clutch which will give before damage is done .. The lead screw has no such safety feature...I suspect that broken gears as shown are done by a crash while someone is thread cutting using the lead screw.. Ramsay 1

  10. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Country
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    1,559
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    6
    Likes (Received)
    473

    Default

    The four part gear cluster in the 13"Regal isnt robust,in fact very often seen broken.....the four gear cluster intact is a very rare spare,and when broken, the cause of parting out many a 13" regal.Bigger lathes are more solid...........but I have noticed that Le Blond gears are very hard,the teeth never bend ,just fracture.

  11. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    port allen, louisiana usa
    Posts
    1,603
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    406
    Likes (Received)
    359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    The four part gear cluster in the 13"Regal isnt robust,in fact very often seen broken.....the four gear cluster intact is a very rare spare,and when broken, the cause of parting out many a 13" regal.Bigger lathes are more solid...........but I have noticed that Le Blond gears are very hard,the teeth never bend ,just fracture.
    Yes this is true.. This is the cluster that is driven by the upper pulley as I recall.. They are somewhat small and are hardened...Probably many of them are broken by changing speeds with the spindle still turning or under power..I think I still have a spare from another lathe that I parted out.. I guess I will keep it.. Cheers; Ramsay 1


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •