Is this LeBlond Regal 17" worth going to look at?

I've had the lathe 'itch' for a while. Time to think about scratching it. Came across this on CL. LeBlond 17" Regal.

LeBlond Regal 17" Lathe - tools - by owner - sale

The thing that has me semi-interested in this one is its history with the Manitowoc Shipyard during WWII (building submarines). My great grandfather worked there during WWII after retiring from farming. (He was a pattern cutter). I always thought it peculiar we built submarines so far inland!

The thing looks to be in rough shape (and asking price is 2x what I guess I think it would be worth)? Do the pictures of the ways say 'run far away'?

Thought please! Fair price to offer? (Or just forget the sentimental aspect and wait for something nicer). I'm not in any rush.

What would I use a lathe for? Helping with repairs on all my older tractors and equipment. I have a retired machinist friend who has said if I ever bought a lathe he would get me started.

Thanks!

welcome! (thought id get that friendly howdy in before some crusty curmudgeon chimed in with abuse, haha!)

I'd say that looks in really great shape for its age, the price is ridiculous, and it isn't really very useful or practical. there has been some advice in the State of the art in the last 100 years.

this is a gem to some for sure, but I would consider it mostly a "collector piece, with some marginal function" machine.

if your first choice in a a dog is an expensive 8 year old with two legs and a set of wheels for the ass end, well this is the lathe for you! (mind you, I've been guilty of adopting seriously crippled iron myself, but never paid much, if anything, up front anyway.)

move on, keep looking, talk to your buddy for suggestions, and good luck!

(oh, and a fair price would range from "just get it out of here", up to 500 if you had like 3 years to sell it)

I agree with the previous poster. Over priced, especially in that part of the country. Those Leblondes are okay machines but they are light and top speed is 485 rpm. They also have a threaded spindle nose which can make cutting in reverse a hazard. Changing heavy chucks isn't much fun either unless you build support blocks for them. I have a leblonde that is very similar. It was the first real machine tool I bought. U.S. Navy machine commissioned in 1943. I think mine is worth maybe $900-1000, but it is in southern Idaho, a machine tool desert. I'm going to be selling mine soon but I'm more interested in finding a good curator than making any money on it.

Brian

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cyanidekid said:

welcome! (thought id get that friendly howdy in before some crusty curmudgeon chimed in with abuse, haha!)

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Guilty to "crusty". But WTF is curmudgeonly or "abusive" about pointing out the Great Lakes have WATER in them ... and connect to the Gulf as well as the Atlantic .... as to that "so far inland" thingie? Closer to the steel sources. And a labour pool. Hard for Weird Adolph or Tojo to bomb or otherwise impair, too

move on, keep looking, talk to your buddy for suggestions, and good luck!

(oh, and a fair price would range from "just get it out of here", up to 500 if you had like 3 years to sell it)

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Got THAT shot spot-on..!!!

here's an idea, if you collect tractors (sounds like it!), tell us what old ones you have, (and the ones you lust after) and we will suggest a few good lathes to match.

cyanidekid said:

here's an idea, if you collect tractors (sounds like it!), tell us what old ones you have, (and the ones you lust after) and we will suggest a few good lathes to match.

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That easy, is it?

Should we presume that buyers of Chicom "Lathe Shaped Objects" collect dildos?

Or boomerangs and the most weirdly curved of over-salted potato chips?

Agreed with the previous valuation.

A "shop worn" but usable lathe currently in service (i.e. plug & play) about $1800 for a gear head. About $1200 for cone IF it is from the last 80 years, which almost always means South Bend, possibly Hendey. Pre 20th century lathes (i.e. OSHA traps) considerably less.

A lot depends on tooling which comes with the lathe. It is easy to spend more on completing the tooling complement than you spend on the lathe itself - and that with the proliferation of pacific rim sourced chucks & ephemera.

The condition of this lathe I would consider "typical" and acceptable. It is clean and newly painted, and not just a spray overcoat. All good signs. Bad sign is he is seemingly keeping the South Bend cone-head in the background? Given the two lathes without knowledge, the LeBlond is MUCH more of a lathe, and were I a shop owner would keep that. There may be something more in play here like "sounds" in the gearhead?

In most shops, an on-board machinist of fact is now a thing of the past. (This is sad) Thus, a shop when it exists tends to mechanical replacement (wrenching) or welding, or CNC. And the manual shop lathes of the past sit waiting for use. Most owners have caught on to the fact that shop square footage is "money tied up" and while they might keep a manual lathe, they really don't want to - and possibly have no one but themselves to use it.

This may be a case of a shop owner/machinist "aficionado" decides to clean up his dad's lathe and put it on the market. A coat of paint frequently adds to the affection, and doubtless the association with Dad adds to the value - in their mind.

Time will cure this. I do watch the machinery listings online. Facebook Marketplace seems to be the popular place for these things currently. It is not unusual for a lathe to hit marketplace, and a week later the price is reduced by $100. And another week by another $200. But many sit, and are removed as they "age out." They may be sold, but more likely not.

Keep your interest known. And your enthusiasm up. You can save money by taking on a "project" but if you're new to this be sure you adequately size the labor involved.

My first lathe of consequence was a 15" Flather of 1907 (Cone) It came from a Worcester, MA machine tool dealer and was reported to be "recently removed from service." It had a four-jaw chuck, a drive-all drive and three phase motor - and that was all. And it had some minor issues. I have told of my experiences with that lathe here not only to include its refurbishment, but also its movement and relocation. Moving an 1800lb lathe in a half ton Isuzu pickup was a lesson I passed by not pressing too hard on ANYTHING on the floor of the truck.

All challenges to be overcome.

You're going at this with a good attitude. Doubtless you can "buy better." It just takes time.

Joe in NH

Thanks for the quick feedback guys. All of the replies were helpful and some were hilarious!

I'll skip looking at that LeBlond and set my sights higher.

There is a 1965 Monarch K Series 16 x 54 for sale an hour and half north of me. Looks to be a "We are cleaning up, come and make an offer, no guaranty anything works" situation.



Next week is tight but maybe I can get up there between meetings to check it out. Would like to bring my machinist friend but he's older and probably still sitting tight because of the VID.

My opinion, if you are new to the market, every lathe is worth inspecting in-person, as it gives you more perspective to make a wise choice when you find a good one. Considering what comes with the LeBlonde, and its size (fits in a garage and can be transported in a pickup truck), and the Texas market, I don't think the price is too far off the mark.

The Monarch is most definitely a nicer machine, will be more work to move, looks too big for the average garage, and if no tooling you will be spending more $$ right away to do anything with it.

Do you have room for a big lathe? Do you have the means to move a big lathe? Do you have the electrical power to run a big lathe?

I second what Dalmatiangirl has said. Speaking as the owner of a LeBlond 13" Roundhead Regal lathe, as well as having experience with the heavier engine lathes, I can say that comparing the LeBlond 17" Roundhead Regal to the Monarch is 'apples to oranges'. The LeBlond lathe, having the swing cast into the side of the headstock, is known as a "trainer" model. These had somewhat lighter bed castings than the 'standard' roundhead Regals, which had "LeBlond" cast into the side of the headstock.

Price for the 17" LeBlond, fully tooled, is an open-ended question. I got lucky and paid 700 bucks for my own 13" x 42" Roundhead Regal with taper attachment, chip pan, coolant system, 3 jaw & 4 jaw chucks, face plate, drive plate, micrometer carriage stop, stead & follower rests. Wear was about what is expectable on a 1943 lathe. That was back in 2012, and the lathe was sold from an estate.

I'd say for the fully tooled 17" Roundhead Regal lathe- assuming no broken or damaged gears in the headstock (a weak link in that series of LeBlond lathes), 1200 - 1500 bucks would be ballpark pricing for here in NY State.

The Monarch lathe is an absolute bear compared to the LeBlond roundhead regal lathe. Monarch built some of the finest engine lathes, and they were built for heavy service. I would bet the bedways are flame hardened on the Monarch lathe. I would also guess that the Monarch has about 4 times the weight of the LeBlond roundhead regal lathe. I would not be surprised if that Monarch had a 10 HP motor on it, while the 17" Regal, being a lighter duty lathe, might only have a 2 HP motor.

Bear in mind that neither of the lathes- the LeBlond, nor the Monarch, are really ideal for doing small jobs. The LeBlond will have a maximum spindle speed under 500 rpm, so using carbide cutting tools and running small diameter jobs requiring higher spindle rpm is not going to happen. The Monarch, being a 1965 machine, may actually have higher spindle speeds as it was built at a time when carbide cutting tools had come into common use.

Unless I missed something, you do not list the swing and distance between centers (a function of bed length) for the Monarch. From your photos, the Monarch looks to be somewhere around 18" swing. From my own experience, an 18" Monarch lathe can have chucks so heavy that you need some means of handling them such as a chain hoist on an overhead trolley, or a jib crane. Again, from experience, on these big old workhorse lathes, they almost always had the 4 jaw chuck "permanently" on the spindle. Any jobs you setup on large, heavy engine lathes in machine shops or maintenance shops usually went into a 4 jaw chuck and you indicated it into true. Or, you simply chucked a piece of round stock, turned it to a 60 degree center and used the big 4 jaw chuck's jaws to drive a lathe dog. On occasion, we'd rig the 4 jaw chucks off the big lathes and rig on faceplates for setting up some jobs. A 3 jaw chuck was almost never used, nor were collets used on these large capacity heavy duty lathes.

As big as the Monarch lathe is, I am sure it has a 3 phase motor and 3 phase motor controls. As I wrote a few paragraphs back, I'd bet the Monarch lathe has a 10 HP motor. Are you prepared to buy a 3 phase converter or VFD capable of starting and running a 10 HP motor ? Your local electric utility will definitely love you if you get that Monarch lathe and run it on a residential meter.

The LeBlond is a much lighter-duty lathe. It is more in line with what home or hobby machine shops would use. Unless you plan to be machining big, scaly and ugly forgings or castings, or parts flame cut from heavy steel plate, the LeBlond is plenty adequate. The Monarch will easily hog off 0.500" on a single roughing cut on 6" diameter alloy steel stock. Been there, done that, with similar heavy engine lathes. If you have the electric service or pocketbook to pay the monthly bill for running that Monarch and you have some sort of overhead hoist or forklift or tractor-loader which can get up next to the Monarch to handle chucks and heavy jobs, you might want to re-visit the light duty roundhead Regal lathe vs the Monarch question.

tx656 said:

Thanks for the quick feedback guys. All of the replies were helpful and some were hilarious!

I'll skip looking at that LeBlond and set my sights higher.

There is a 1965 Monarch K Series 16 x 54 for sale an hour and half north of me. Looks to be a "We are cleaning up, come and make an offer, no guaranty anything works" situation.

View attachment 307284View attachment 307285

Next week is tight but maybe I can get up there between meetings to check it out. Would like to bring my machinist friend but he's older and probably still sitting tight because of the VID.

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Would be nice if you had an idea what kind of money would buy the monarch. If they're needing it moved in a hurry and your willing to gamble a bit it could/might be a sweet deal. With a few caveats though, takes more room, tougher to haul, power requirements, and obviously needs more attention. Also quite a gamble without seeing it run. However, if somewhere under 1k(preferably 500) you would have money on the table to get it running and start tooling it up. You also will find that length handier working on tractors I suspect. As mentioned it is a gamble that could bite you in the arse as well.
Good luck, Hodge

Not at 3200, maybe at 1500...Phil

I've owned a few Monarchs and Leblonds. Both are great lathes however the Leblond Regal is light duty low cost version. I can't see in the photo well the flat on the top of the V way. It looks to change width. If it does stay away from it. The width of the flat on the top should remain constant if not it indicates heavy wear! Monarch is a better machine if it's in good shape, in addition it has the lead screw reverse option! If you are thinking of doing metric threads that would be a nice option to have! That option will also allow for automatic feed stop.

the Monarch COULD be a great unit, but consider carefully what Joe M and hodge had to say, some real wisdom there.

you have the time and the money to put in to the Monarch? would you be able to evaluate the unit and determine its condition? if its spindle bearings need replacement, you are in it for at least a grand right there. buying an out of service heavy industrial unit is not for the faint of heart. IF it came tooled up that would make a huge difference because everything is costly that goes on a unit like that, but it doesn't look like it.

then there is the factor of safety as well. as has been discussed here, a 10hp gearhead lathe can, will, and some say actually wants, to kill you. if you are learning on your first lathe, working alone much of the time, that is something to consider. flat belt low hp drives are the safest to learn on, as they can be adjusted to (if they don't already) slip if you get in trouble. I hate to dip into these waters, but there is a reason South Bend "heavy" ten (10L) is considered a desirable unit. yes, not for hogging off .250 in 4140, but still useful for sure.

not say you can't handle an industrial strength unit in need of a lot of work, but consider getting something running at least. do you want a serious project or a working lathe? go look, but don't fall in love! keep a clear head, trust me, I've made some mistakes...

I bought the Monarch this afternoon. I have the perfect spot for it in my shop. It did not come with any tooling. No chuck and no tool rest.

Seller started it up and it ran smooth. Forward, Reverse, power feed on both axis. We picked some random gears to try. No clicking or anything like that. To me the ways look like they will clean up GREAT! It looks like they actually don't have much/any wear and abuse? There is surface rust on the power rods, the apron, etc as you can see in the picture. I think it will all clean up fine.

The lathe is an ex Air Force or Navy unit. (Started life in Corpus Christi or spent some time there based on a tag). Then was given by the military to a trade school.



I get into projects like this for the learning aspect. I just sold a very classic Clark Y20 forklift that I restored. Operated GREAT when I sold it at the local farm auction. I lost $ just factoring in the parts I put into it. NEVERMIND the time. I would do it all over again. I learned a lot doing it.



Not planning to make any money on this project. I know I will actually spend a bunch. That's ok!

Time to start a new thread! Is this lathe by the forum's definition an 'Antique'? Would you suggest I start the new thread on the Monarch subforum or keep it in Antiques? Again, thanks for all the feedback. Looking forward to the education.

(Can't figure out how delete the sideways thumbnail).

Good luck with your new tool and keep us posted. Just remember a golden rule my great uncle once told me. "Never put your fingers or thumbs where you wouldn't put your wang". {I still have all nine. lol] Nice job on the forklift by the way. Must have been quite a workout for the Ford!

tx656 said:

I bought the Monarch this afternoon. I have the perfect spot for it in my shop. It did not come with any tooling. No chuck and no tool rest.

Seller started it up and it ran smooth. Forward, Reverse, power feed on both axis. We picked some random gears to try. No clicking or anything like that. To me the ways look like they will clean up GREAT! It looks like they actually don't have much/any wear and abuse? There is surface rust on the power rods, the apron, etc as you can see in the picture. I think it will all clean up fine.

The lathe is an ex Air Force or Navy unit. (Started life in Corpus Christi or spent some time there based on a tag). Then was given by the military to a trade school.

View attachment 307455

I get into projects like this for the learning aspect. I just sold a very classic Clark Y20 forklift that I restored. Operated GREAT when I sold it at the local farm auction. I lost $ just factoring in the parts I put into it. NEVERMIND the time. I would do it all over again. I learned a lot doing it.

View attachment 307456

Not planning to make any money on this project. I know I will actually spend a bunch. That's ok!

Time to start a new thread! Is this lathe by the forum's definition an 'Antique'? Would you suggest I start the new thread on the Monarch subforum or keep it in Antiques? Again, thanks for all the feedback. Looking forward to the education.

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Monarch forum, please.

We need a reminder ever' now and then that they DID make full-size lathes, too.

Not just desk paperweight sized 10EE "Salesman's Samples".

tx656 said:

I bought the Monarch this afternoon. I have the perfect spot for it in my shop. It did not come with any tooling. No chuck and no tool rest.

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Glad to see you liked the Monarch. (I'm biased). Hope to hear about it over in the Monarch forum as you put it to work and tune it up. The K is a good entry level machine in the Monarch line given your tractor interest. Despite other comments here, I believe the K came with 3HP, maybe 5. You'll definitely want to know about the vintagemachinery.org repository of documents, of particular interest will be the Model K instructions http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/16932.pdf. Keith Rucker on youtube did rebuild on a K, he is also associated with vintagemachinery.org. Also, Monarch can still be contacted for some parts (at nontrivial prices), but if it didn't come with the lathe, you should order a documentation set for your serial number from them. It'll cost about $50 or $75, gets you the instructions and parts sheets specific to your serial number.

Phil in Montana said:

Not at 3200, maybe at 1500...Phil

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I would say the seller is looking for 3K, with the fresh coat of paint, a vfd, and enough tooling to be plug and play, some hobbyist that does not want to take on a basket case will bite. A production shop would never buy it, but the hobbyist market is strong, and as usual there is more $$ flowing in Tx than any other state, 3K is chump change.