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Light relief: Machinery identification challenge!

Asquith

Diamond
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Location
Somerset, UK
JD 2020 A13.jpg 1. JD 2020 A1.jpg 2. JD 2020 A2.jpg 3. JD 2020 A17.jpg 4.

Apologies if this breaks the rules on cryptic titles.

What sort of equipment do you suppose is represented by these photos, and when was it made? Ignore the square tubing.

I don’t expect anyone to get it yet. Not much to go on, to be fair. I’m deliberately being selective initially to make it more difficult. I’ll gradually add more pictures, and then you’ll perhaps be in similar position to me when I first saw the thing, and wondered what I was looking at.
 
French … Absinth related distillery ,

or Perfume related ?

Or even lavender or Wormwood or anise related.

Could even be Swedish rather than French ?

Cryogenic liquids lol... (early attempts at).
 
My guess is some sort of light-weight "expansion engine", possibly for an early aircraft (semi-rigid balloon with engine driven propellor ?). Alberto Santos-Dumont had circled the Eifel Tower in an early "airship" consisting of a sausage shaped "gas bag" with tail stabilizer, rudder, and possibly elevator fins. Propulsion was done with a large propellor turned by some kind of engine. Given the early date of this flight, I would not be surprised if it were some kind of "expansion engine" (using something like the expansion of carbon dioxide or compressed air) rather than steam.

An expansion engine of that time period would be built similar to a steam engine. The gas used, such as compressed air or carbon dioxide, would need to be stored in a high-pressure "flask". The expansion of the gas would drop its temperature quite a bit, possibly with a freeze-up occurring in the engine cylinders. Hence, there is that "radiator" to warm the gas to closer to ambient temperature before it enters the engine. If carbon dioxide was used, this would account for the cork insulation on the storage tank (aka "flask" or "bottle").

The high degree of finish on the parts all points to someone with plenty of money to spend on this "machine" and wanting to "showcase" it. Something like early manned flight would be the kind of thing that this sort of high degree of finish on the engine and its related parts would demand. I am likely way off course in thinking this engine has anything to with Santos-Dumont, but he is the only early pioneer of manned flight in France that I can think of. Santos-Dumont was something of a showman and wealthy enough (or had wealthy backers for his experiments) to spare no expense in having this engine and its related parts built to this high degree of finish.

I am pipe-dreaming (pardon the pun) about Santos-Dumont or other early experimenters and their early lighter-than-air aircraft in terms of this engine, but a long forgotten line of thinking did fly (again, pardon the pun) into my mind. With that line of thinking comes the recollection of the old "Mad Magazine" of the 60's. In the old "Mad Magazine", there were the usual satirical cartoons and similar, but often, a small drawing of the "Mad Zeppelin"- a semi rigid gas-bag with a gondola having a vertical boiler and steam engine to turn the prop comes to mind.

The other name that comes to mind is a German experimenter named Lilienthal. Lilienthal was experimenting with what, today would be known as "hang gliders". His research and data was used by the Wright Brothers, if I am not mistaken. Lilienthal was jumping from steep hillsides or cliffs with his gliders and was getting further in his flights. The next step was powered flight. Lilienthal attempted to use some kind of expansion engine (pressurized tank of carbon dioxide or compressed air to drive it). Unfortunately for Lilienthal, on his first attempt at powered flight, he crashed and was killed. Some accounts say that Lilienthal did not realize something all airplane and helicopter pilots are well aware of: the "Coriolus Effect" or "P factor"- the tendency of an aircraft to twist with the torque applied to the prop.
Lilienthal apparently jumped off a cliff with his powered hang glider and opened the throttle to the engine. The resulting reaction to the torque of the prop caused his aircraft to go into a violent and uncontrollable condition (wing-over stall ?) and Lilienthal and his craft crashed to the ground. It was the end of Herr Lilienthal. I used to wonder that, had Lilienthal been successful with his powered hang glider, if he would have pre-dated the Wright Brothers.

The only other name for early manned flight that comes to mind is Samuel Langley. Langley had the backing of the Smithsonian Institute. He was experimenting with a huge heavier-than-air "contraption" which he called the "aerodrome". It was supposedly "steam powered" and was launched by catapult from a barge in the Potomac River. I think it crashed into the river as soon as it was launched off the barge. Langley had the wealthy backers to have a finely finished "expansion engine" as shown in this thread built. What the press and written accounts call a "steam engine" may well have been an expansion engine. Using Carbon dioxide gas or some combination of substances that combined and reacted to produce steam (such as were used in torpedoes) may well have been what this engine ran on. The exhaust, leaving a cloud of white gas, was probably mistaken for steam.

So, my two guesses are: either a very early lighter than air aircraft (ala Santos Dumont or similar), or Samuel Langley and his "aerodrome"'s expansion engine.
 
Looks like some Brooklyn hipster's espresso machine.
 

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JD 2020 A7.jpg 5. JD 2020 A9.jpg 6. JD 2020 A3.jpg 7. JD 2020 A4.jpg 8.

Well, I'm not going to say whether any of the suggestions is right or wrong at this stage. Fear not, those who are nearest will receive their kudos in due course. The highest award will be permission to display a smug expression, not that many people will see it, if you're in 'social isolation'.

I've attached some more photos which, on reflection, might not help much. Later I'll reveal all, which will no doubt result in a mixture of disappointment and mirth.
 
My guess is some sort of light-weight "expansion engine", possibly for an early aircraft (semi-rigid balloon with engine driven propellor ?). Alberto Santos-Dumont had circled the Eifel Tower in an early "airship" consisting of a sausage shaped "gas bag" with tail stabilizer, rudder, and possibly elevator fins. Propulsion was done with a large propellor turned by some kind of engine. Given the early date of this flight, I would not be surprised if it were some kind of "expansion engine" (using something like the expansion of carbon dioxide or compressed air) rather than steam.

An expansion engine of that time period would be built similar to a steam engine. The gas used, such as compressed air or carbon dioxide, would need to be stored in a high-pressure "flask". The expansion of the gas would drop its temperature quite a bit, possibly with a freeze-up occurring in the engine cylinders. Hence, there is that "radiator" to warm the gas to closer to ambient temperature before it enters the engine. If carbon dioxide was used, this would account for the cork insulation on the storage tank (aka "flask" or "bottle").

The high degree of finish on the parts all points to someone with plenty of money to spend on this "machine" and wanting to "showcase" it. Something like early manned flight would be the kind of thing that this sort of high degree of finish on the engine and its related parts would demand. I am likely way off course in thinking this engine has anything to with Santos-Dumont, but he is the only early pioneer of manned flight in France that I can think of. Santos-Dumont was something of a showman and wealthy enough (or had wealthy backers for his experiments) to spare no expense in having this engine and its related parts built to this high degree of finish.

I am pipe-dreaming (pardon the pun) about Santos-Dumont or other early experimenters and their early lighter-than-air aircraft in terms of this engine, but a long forgotten line of thinking did fly (again, pardon the pun) into my mind. With that line of thinking comes the recollection of the old "Mad Magazine" of the 60's. In the old "Mad Magazine", there were the usual satirical cartoons and similar, but often, a small drawing of the "Mad Zeppelin"- a semi rigid gas-bag with a gondola having a vertical boiler and steam engine to turn the prop comes to mind.

The other name that comes to mind is a German experimenter named Lilienthal. Lilienthal was experimenting with what, today would be known as "hang gliders". His research and data was used by the Wright Brothers, if I am not mistaken. Lilienthal was jumping from steep hillsides or cliffs with his gliders and was getting further in his flights. The next step was powered flight. Lilienthal attempted to use some kind of expansion engine (pressurized tank of carbon dioxide or compressed air to drive it). Unfortunately for Lilienthal, on his first attempt at powered flight, he crashed and was killed. Some accounts say that Lilienthal did not realize something all airplane and helicopter pilots are well aware of: the "Coriolus Effect" or "P factor"- the tendency of an aircraft to twist with the torque applied to the prop.
Lilienthal apparently jumped off a cliff with his powered hang glider and opened the throttle to the engine. The resulting reaction to the torque of the prop caused his aircraft to go into a violent and uncontrollable condition (wing-over stall ?) and Lilienthal and his craft crashed to the ground. It was the end of Herr Lilienthal. I used to wonder that, had Lilienthal been successful with his powered hang glider, if he would have pre-dated the Wright Brothers.

The only other name for early manned flight that comes to mind is Samuel Langley. Langley had the backing of the Smithsonian Institute. He was experimenting with a huge heavier-than-air "contraption" which he called the "aerodrome". It was supposedly "steam powered" and was launched by catapult from a barge in the Potomac River. I think it crashed into the river as soon as it was launched off the barge. Langley had the wealthy backers to have a finely finished "expansion engine" as shown in this thread built. What the press and written accounts call a "steam engine" may well have been an expansion engine. Using Carbon dioxide gas or some combination of substances that combined and reacted to produce steam (such as were used in torpedoes) may well have been what this engine ran on. The exhaust, leaving a cloud of white gas, was probably mistaken for steam.

So, my two guesses are: either a very early lighter than air aircraft (ala Santos Dumont or similar), or Samuel Langley and his "aerodrome"'s expansion engine.

Just skimming through what you wrote,

Langley used steam engines for smaller 'Model" sized aircraft (I believe a high pressure design), The little ones flew really well " :-) Just didn't scale very well.

Later for full sized Langley Aerodrome he used a gasoline internal combustion engine, later on after his famous crash he put everything together and a Curtiss small radial engine was installed to prove that it could kinda fly (I was working at the Smithsonian NASM / Garber facility in the 1990s when we had the Aerodrome in a few thousand pieces and what seemed like hundreds of tension wires that had to be dealt with) + major textile conservation issue even on "restored" replacement.) ~ Langley's main failing was not having an aerofoil profile for the propellers, they were flat, large slow, and covered in a silk like cloth. As opposed to twisted blade wooden "composite" aerofoil of the wright brothers.



I was thinking Jules Henri Giffard The First Powered Airship | The Greatest Moments in Flight | Space
Steam powered balloon and almost early air ship like components…

BUT

I'm thinking cryogenics and first liquid gasses , hence silver shiny super polished things and cork insulation for condensation problems...
Not unlike the first Dewar flasks / thermos flasks, shinny surfaces and cork inter-spacers. (reflects ambient radiation ).
It does look like a complex still , steam distillation/ fractionating rig for more complex organics …
 
Looks like some Brooklyn hipster's espresso machine.

THAT made my day. :D

STEAMPUNK ALERT————————-STEAMPUNK ALERT——————————-STEAMPUNK ALERT—————————-:
May cause skinny pants, Hitler Youth haircuts & possibly even some goth tendencies.
 
Gee Asquith, should I say what it is? I looked up my hunch and I was right. Funny thing is the square tube frame is what gave it away.

Btw, loved the expresso maker!
 
Additional clues are the fact that the parts all appear to have been made as light as possible (crank webs are ribbed rather than solid, "X" bracing between the cylinders). This points to some use where weight had to be pared down, which would be in line with early "air ship" propulsion.

The cork insulation points to something cold rather than steam. Cork would prevent frost forming on the piping and "flask".

From the latest set of photos, I am seeing what appears to be a twin cylinder expansion engine. It was built on the lines of an inclined horizontal engine, sort of like what was used in some paddle-wheel steamers. It is old enough to have been built with plain bearings, as there are oil cups all over the it.

It is the wrong configuration for an early torpedo engine, though the principals may be quite similar. Someone was needing a compact self-contained engine at a time when perhaps i/c engines were either undeveloped or at least not dependable/light enough for the purpose at hand. Or, someone needed a self-contained engine which did not breathe air. Could be an engine for a submersible craft like an early submarine as well as an early "lighter than air" craft.
 
Asquith, you know the rest of the thing is pretty amazing too, I mean when you look at it you can only wonder just what was the inspiration for it.
 
Right. Amazingly, Rivett recognized the thing just an hour after I posted. MCritchley, enginebill and Joe were all on the right track.

As Rivett recalled, it was in a stairwell in the wonderful Musée des Arts et Métiers in Paris.

I walked past it a few times, thinking it was space hardware. When I decided to stop and look at its information board (one of the few that was in French only) I thought I had a failure of comprehension.

It’s the steam propulsion plant (boiler and engines) made in 1894-7 by Clément Ader for his twin-prop ‘Avion III’ aircraft. Astonishing, for its time.

Even armed with this information, I could make neither head nor tail of it. Not until a year later when I sat down and studied my numerous photos, determined to post something to occupy the minds of embattled PMers.

Hanging in the stairwell nearby was a flying machine. I was incredulous to find that it was Ader’s ‘Avion III’, powered by the aforesaid steam engines......
 








 
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