Little Giant lower die removal

DeSelle · Nov 30, 2021

Hi all,

I’ve done some research on this and have seen suggestions like welding a sawed off bolt to the large end and using a pipe and cap to try to pull it out. And of course I have tried knocking it out from the small end. I suspect it was driven in hot. It absolutely won’t move. I’m bringing this to the brain trust for further ideas….

It’s an old style 50# if that matters

Nathan

cretedog · Nov 30, 2021

Had to weld a stud on the large end of the key, spray it liberally with Pen, repeatedly, and let it soak for a day or so, and then hook up the Big Boy slide hammer to get one of ours out once.

DeSelle · Nov 30, 2021

I’ll go out and douse it with pen oil. I can’t get back out there for a few days so it will have time to soak in.

Adair Orr · Nov 30, 2021

I struggled with the key on the sow block of my 100# LG. I used the threaded stud and pipe technique. It only yielded when I drilled holes in the small end of the taper. It sat under strain for two days. I had a long cheater bar on that bolt too. It must have had some flare from someone before me trying to knock it out.

DeSelle · Nov 30, 2021

I just soaked it with PB Blaster. I’ll let it sit for a couple of days or until I can get some more free time then I’ll try the bolt in pipe again. This time I’ll leave it under tension if it doesn’t work and maybe it will pop out.

gbent · Dec 1, 2021

It would be loose if it was driven in hot. It was driven in cold, every few times the hammer was used. It would probably come out easily if you could get someone to hammer on it while you were using the hammer. First, get rid of that nail set. All it does is mushroom over the small end. Make a flat punch the full height of the key. Then use a big hammer.

Or, just put the hammer to work. The key will come loose on its own.

We would like a few pictures of the whole hammer. Little Giant Hammer is still in business in Nebraska City, NE. They have the original serial number books and drawings. Many parts are still available. I don't know if he still does them, but Sid Suedmeier, a previous owner of the company, used to put on a weekend rebuilding class on the hammers that was very reasonably priced.

DeSelle · Dec 1, 2021

The entire hammer needs to be gone through. I got it about a year or so ago and am just now tearing into it. I have Sid’s videos which are great. I’ve been talking to Dave at LG about the ram guide and he is very helpful. I’ll post a pic of the entire hammer as I got it and in its current state this afternoon. I definitely can’t run it to loosen the die yet.

Thanks

metalmagpie · Dec 1, 2021

Torch with flushing tip? Scarfing gun?

Seriously, this problem screams for hydraulics. Clamp a piece of 2" plate steel to the side of your sow block. Use the huge Armstrong shipbuilding C clamps. Then put a hydraulic jack between the plate and your lower die and push it out.

Normally I'd suggest heating the female part to expand it a little but that sow block would soak up a ton of fuel gas before it got hot.

metalmagpie

JST · Dec 1, 2021

Heat the SMALL part (die) as much as you can quickly. Let it cool off and then try getting it out. With luck it will have crushed or loosened whatever is jamming it in there.

DeSelle · Dec 1, 2021

Here are a couple of pics. One of the hammer the day I brought it home and one as it is today during tear down

Salem Straub · Dec 3, 2021

I've rebuilt a few hammers... die and sow keys are often an issue. I also like the welded on bolt/pipe spacer/puller, but often this isn't quite enough. What really works in that case, is to put pull tension on the key with the welded on puller, use penetrating oil overnight at least, and then use a "battering ram" on the key from the small end to push it out. The ram can be a big chunk of metal, (I use about a 40 lb chunk of old hydraulic ram) slung from high up, such as a gantry crane, engine hoist, rafter, hammer frame etc. make a mild steel punch the size and shape of the key end you're going to hit, and tack weld a handle to that or use tongs to hold in place. Drive the punch with the ram to move the key. These things really take a penetrating impact to break loose sometimes. You can alternate between tensioning the puller a little (you can feel if the key has moved a little) and hitting with the battering ram.
I got a super stuck sow block key out of my 300 lb Beaudry this way when nothing else even close to worked.

memphisjed · Dec 4, 2021

Sid retired a few months ago, sold the company to a neighbor or something.
Good news is you do not have to worry about saving that die. It looks like there is no spacer shim on the non keyed side- which is bad, very bad. you end up where you are now without it.
Drilling out and hammers are the first two options - but with that sad die I would opt for removing it with grinder maybe start portaband if it fits into the space. Just start vee-ing it, grinding it until the you can hammer all the bits out.

DeSelle · Dec 4, 2021

That’s not a bad idea if I can’t get the wedge out. I plan to replace it. The hammer was obviously not well cared for but I got it pretty cheap and it appears to be salvageable without major investment

DeSelle · Jan 3, 2022

Thanks to everyone for the help. I had it sitting under tension for a few weeks and regularly soaked it with PB Blaster. I didn’t appear to help but certainly didn’t hurt. I finally got my regulators rebuilt and was able to heat the die with a rosebud. Some combination of these things allowed me to knock it out with my 4#.

I know I can buy a set of dies but are there any dimensions for them in case I want to take a stab at machining some? What’s the best material?

gbent · Jan 3, 2022

The originals were W1, or close to it. Valued by knife makers, just look what ones sell for on fleabay. I made my replacements from 4340, quenched and drawn to 500F. Chances are good you won't wear out one made from 1018.

Rob F. · Jan 3, 2022

You can also weld hardfacing on the top of mild steel dies to make them last longer. Be sure to use rod made for impact or impact and abrasion. If it is only for abrasion you will never be able to grind it.
I made mild steel flat dies for one of my nazel hammers back in 2006 or so and they are doing just fine. Mostly they just hold other tooling.
Do like gbent said and make them from 1018 and if you do wear them down then weld on the hardfacing.

Doppelganger703 · Jan 8, 2022

DeSelle said:
View attachment 338535 View attachment 338536 View attachment 338537

Thanks to everyone for the help. I had it sitting under tension for a few weeks and regularly soaked it with PB Blaster. I didn’t appear to help but certainly didn’t hurt. I finally got my regulators rebuilt and was able to heat the die with a rosebud. Some combination of these things allowed me to knock it out with my 4#.

I know I can buy a set of dies but are there any dimensions for them in case I want to take a stab at machining some? What’s the best material?

Little Giant

DeSelle · Jan 8, 2022

Thanks

I know about that link but it doesn’t give you the height or the dovetail dims. I was hoping for a basic print

Doppelganger703 · Jan 8, 2022

DeSelle said:
Thanks

I know about that link but it doesn’t give you the height or the dovetail dims. I was hoping for a basic print

Give Dave a call... Everyone at LG is amazing and helpful.

Little Giant lower die removal

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