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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    ...doesn’t seem like this machine is in BAD shape. It’s been used, doesn’t seem to have been abused though.
    Photos haven't yet shown any negatives to worry about. Quite the reverse.

    Not as if a Lodge CANNOT be "abused", but most who attempt it just fail at it.

    They are just that true to "Good lathes".

    Looks as if you got lucky. VERY!

  2. #22
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    As per the PM'd request, this will help to serve - without re-writing a lot already written

    20 X 78 Lodge & Shipley

    The PT's forerunner, not as heavy as some - I.E., 14 / 16 and 20 standard Model X

    The PT is known also by its other name - the 2X

    The X was a workaday machine not especially lovely - the PT's "new clothes" fixed that

    The above linked thread has multiple links to PB photos - which may or may not be functional. SO, I add the following to show what your PT MOSTLY looks like inside

    dcp_1088.jpgdcp_1088cropa.jpgdcp_1089.jpgdcp_1090.jpgdcp_1091.jpg

    And more in following Post

  3. #23
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    More Standard 20" Model X photos

    dcp_1092.jpgdcp_1093.jpgdcp_1094.jpgdcp_1095.jpg

  4. #24
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    Thanks so much! Hoping I can get the machine into the shop over the weekend and start tearing into it.




    Be safe and stay healthy




    Jeremy

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    Well, I missed getting into the shop last weekend... the best-laid plans... None of the riggers I contacted even bothered to get back in touch with me. Plenty of people were willing to rent me all sorts of equipment, none of it at a price I could rationalize. All the while my 10k car lift has been staring me in the face.

    So I borrowed so Hillman rollers off of my boss:


    And called in some reinforcements. Most of my crew has been working nights the last week, so it wound up being my dad and the same friend who I borrowed the trailer from.

    We drove the trailer into the shop and under the lift:



    I really didnít want to sling it on the lift... I figured I was pushing my luck enough as it was, either the lift would work or it wouldnít, but dangling the machine added the good possibility of the machine spinning towards the motor. No thanks. Unfortunately there wasnít enough room between the chip pan and the bed, so I wound up lifting the machine from the chip pan. Ironically, the sellers lifted it the same way and I spent half the return trip bitching about it. Their forks wouldíve cleared the gap.

    In any case, the chip pan is no better for the wear, but doesnít appear to be worse either. We drove the trailer out and got the machine to the ground as quickly as possible.


    The hard part was mostly done. Once the machine was back on terra firma we took a couple minutes to let our sphincters unpucker and started thinking about the remaining moves: clear the lift, turn 90 degrees and move about 20 feet.



    I put the four skates under the headstock end, knowing damn well that they wouldnít all stay put and put my pallet jack under the tailstock side. We moved it clear of the lift, blocked it on the center foot, turned the pallet jack 90 degrees to turn the machine, then reverse all of that to move it to where itís sitting now:



    Conít

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  7. #26
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    For the life of me I donít know why Lodge and Shipley made the middle plinth higher than the outside ones, but either thereís almost a perfect 1/2Ē bow in this machine or that leg is 1/2Ē higher than the others. So I have a use for the annular cutter slugs I just canít seem to get rid of:


    I put two of these discs under the middle levelers and then put just a little tension on the levelers. Thatís how it sits now and will until a later date. Iím not gonna run it sitting on blocks, but Iím 6í4Ē and the six inches of lift puts the longitudinal hand wheel right in my hand, so Iím definitely gonna think about raising the machine somehow.

    Thereís still lots of work ahead, but at least the machine is back under cover where only one cat MAY piss on it:


    Overall it was a pretty good day. I didnít even give a thought to what I would do if Iíd dropped the machine.

    Thanks to the community here, I think my tooling issues are solved, as soon as I can afford to purchase the bits that members have offered.

    I did get a screaming deal on a 10Ē Cushman 4-jaw, another piece that I need to clean up:




    Tons of fun ahead, stay tuned...






    Be safe




    Jeremy

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  9. #27
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    For the life of me I don’t know why Lodge and Shipley made the middle plinth higher
    Less likelihood of busting them off during a move (like on my 16 X 102 Monarch)

  10. #28
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    I dont know on the center plinth, mine had 54" center distance and no center plinth, seems like a good idea to have a little clearance there, if they can snag and break off.
    I snagged a 12" Cushman solid steel 4jaw from HGR last summer, for sure coming off of one of the powerturns they had listed, at the time for $260 with shipping, but they wised up since then. Yes, it was crusty, but cleaned up nice.
    The only advice I have, is make sure when the motor starts, oil appears in the window on the headstock.
    The carriage is so heavy, over a short time of not running, it squeezes the oil out from under ways, and the
    carriage sticks, hard to move.
    There is a little trigger thing down on the apron, that manually pumps oil up to the ways, and then you can easily move it.

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  12. #29
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    The mailman brought this today:


    While it is far from comprehensive, itís my understanding that this is the primary literature Lodge and Shipley saw fit to provide. It makes no mention of:


    The lever I now know to be the apron priming lever. I flushed the apron with some kerosene and tickled the crap out of the lever. What oil I drained was a little dark, but mostly on hue with the Vactra #2 the book calls for. Draining the kerosene didnít bring any chunks out... also did nothing to clear the sight-glass. Iím out of way oil around here, so I filled the apron back with the Mobil DTE 26 that I have plenty of. Donít jump on me... itís temporary. This machine will have the prescribed oils in it before itís run under power.

    I pulled off the headstock cover and the gearbox/belt covers and things went a little Clint Eastwood...

    The good:


    Both oil pumps are doing what theyíre supposed to. Itís my understanding the apron pump is primarily driven off the feed rod?!? The prime lever obviously works, but Iím not spinning the feed rod under power, so I cannot verify if the pump works in that scenario. Seeing oil pump off the priming rod felt good all the same.

    Under the headstock cover nothing is jumping out immediately. The oil is dark, but doesnít look burnt or contaminated. I put the machine in the two higher gears, engaged the clutch and got oil from the pump before I totally wore myself out. Thanks again John Oder for providing the Model X reference pictures. Again, Iím not gonna run the machine under power any time soon, but Iím happy with what I saw today, until:

    The bad:


    From everything else Iíve seen, my guess is that they couldnít find a replacement filter and did this?!?!?!? Thereís nothing jumping out to lead me to believe the filter assembly was damaged physically. My guess is some previous owner couldnít find the right filter and threw together this bypass. Itís unfortunate, and another cost, but I donít think itís insurmountable.

    So, on to the Ugly:


    This green crap. Itís EVERYWHERE! And most unfortunately, my guess is itís abrasive residue. It has the look of green carbide grinding wheels. Iím filing this under ugly because I donít think the machine was running during the time it was getting sprayed with this crap. The previous owners had a job shop that appeared focused on welding/fabrication. The story they told was theyíd acquired this machine for a specific job that never materialized and mothballed it. Iím hoping they mothballed it in proximity to a grinding station and thatís where the dust came from. So itís ugly... because whatever it is, I need to get it off the surfaces of the machine before I run it, but I donít think itís as BAD as it could be, nothing else shows evidence of abrasive being ground into it and thereís nothing I can do about it at this point other than clean it.

    Also ugly is the fact that every single sight-glass is totally glazed. Uglier still is the amount of work needed to replaced the windows. Seeing what Iíve seen so far, I donít know what to do. Iíd surely prefer to have clean and clear sight glasses, but I donít know how smart it is to try and repair them the right way. The right way, in my mind, being to disassemble the machine until I have access to the back of the windows to push them out. I know I can probably break the glass and pry the old parts out from the outside. Iím just wondering if doing so is smart???

    Anyhow, overall the day was positive. I expected this thing to require some work. Nothing seems terrible and the reality is that the machine will ultimately get an early retirement in my care. Itís fifty years old and I donít plan to baby it, but Iím not gonna make it work terribly hard or terribly often. Hopefully someone will be as nice to me when I hit the half-century mark.

    For the oil filter, Iím gonna start my search for a housing for the Purolator spin-on filter the machines took, but Iím wondering if something like a SB/BB Chevy oil-filter relocation setup wouldnít work as well? Any thoughts? The Purolator filter is documented here, so thatíll be my first place to look, but is there any reason NOT to think about other options?



    Be safe




    Jeremy

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  14. #30
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    I’m not sure what sort of filtration is required but I have some experience sourcing and retrofitting filters. My first suggestion for spin on filtration would be a hydraulic filter. If an appropriate micron rating can’t be found then an engine oil or fuel filter may be the answer. Fuel filters can be found with incredibly fine ratings and have no internal bypass so if needed you may fit your own external one specked to your desires. I’d be glad to offer what part numbers I know of if I knew what the filtration requirements are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    The mailman brought this today:


    While it is far from comprehensive, itís my understanding that this is the primary literature Lodge and Shipley saw fit to provide. It makes no mention of:


    The lever I now know to be the apron priming lever. I flushed the apron with some kerosene and tickled the crap out of the lever. What oil I drained was a little dark, but mostly on hue with the Vactra #2 the book calls for. Draining the kerosene didnít bring any chunks out... also did nothing to clear the sight-glass. Iím out of way oil around here, so I filled the apron back with the Mobil DTE 26 that I have plenty of. Donít jump on me... itís temporary. This machine will have the prescribed oils in it before itís run under power.

    I pulled off the headstock cover and the gearbox/belt covers and things went a little Clint Eastwood...

    The good:


    Both oil pumps are doing what theyíre supposed to. Itís my understanding the apron pump is primarily driven off the feed rod?!? The prime lever obviously works, but Iím not spinning the feed rod under power, so I cannot verify if the pump works in that scenario. Seeing oil pump off the priming rod felt good all the same.

    Under the headstock cover nothing is jumping out immediately. The oil is dark, but doesnít look burnt or contaminated. I put the machine in the two higher gears, engaged the clutch and got oil from the pump before I totally wore myself out. Thanks again John Oder for providing the Model X reference pictures. Again, Iím not gonna run the machine under power any time soon, but Iím happy with what I saw today, until:

    The bad:


    From everything else Iíve seen, my guess is that they couldnít find a replacement filter and did this?!?!?!? Thereís nothing jumping out to lead me to believe the filter assembly was damaged physically. My guess is some previous owner couldnít find the right filter and threw together this bypass. Itís unfortunate, and another cost, but I donít think itís insurmountable.

    So, on to the Ugly:


    This green crap. Itís EVERYWHERE! And most unfortunately, my guess is itís abrasive residue. It has the look of green carbide grinding wheels. Iím filing this under ugly because I donít think the machine was running during the time it was getting sprayed with this crap. The previous owners had a job shop that appeared focused on welding/fabrication. The story they told was theyíd acquired this machine for a specific job that never materialized and mothballed it. Iím hoping they mothballed it in proximity to a grinding station and thatís where the dust came from. So itís ugly... because whatever it is, I need to get it off the surfaces of the machine before I run it, but I donít think itís as BAD as it could be, nothing else shows evidence of abrasive being ground into it and thereís nothing I can do about it at this point other than clean it.

    Also ugly is the fact that every single sight-glass is totally glazed. Uglier still is the amount of work needed to replaced the windows. Seeing what Iíve seen so far, I donít know what to do. Iíd surely prefer to have clean and clear sight glasses, but I donít know how smart it is to try and repair them the right way. The right way, in my mind, being to disassemble the machine until I have access to the back of the windows to push them out. I know I can probably break the glass and pry the old parts out from the outside. Iím just wondering if doing so is smart???

    Anyhow, overall the day was positive. I expected this thing to require some work. Nothing seems terrible and the reality is that the machine will ultimately get an early retirement in my care. Itís fifty years old and I donít plan to baby it, but Iím not gonna make it work terribly hard or terribly often. Hopefully someone will be as nice to me when I hit the half-century mark.

    For the oil filter, Iím gonna start my search for a housing for the Purolator spin-on filter the machines took, but Iím wondering if something like a SB/BB Chevy oil-filter relocation setup wouldnít work as well? Any thoughts? The Purolator filter is documented here, so thatíll be my first place to look, but is there any reason NOT to think about other options?



    Be safe




    Jeremy

    See what Welderboy can dig up for yah as a close-enough match to what L&S originally used and go work on other stuff.

    You won't have the steady input of nasty contaminants as an IC engine has, so an auto filter might or might not be appropriate.

    On the sight glasses? "Somebody" must have a way. L&S were right-common lathes.

    I've been known to just break at least one of those using "flint" glass, vac out the shards, pull the bezel, figure out if there is some other way from that "evidence".

    Then figure out WHICH of about a hundred styles and sizes will do for a replacement.

    MMC alone carry a ton of them.

    They are not hard to fab to your own design, either. Warch repair hsus carry all manner of "crystals", "mineral glass" as well as plastics.

  16. #32
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    I noticed a couple of lathes Ive scrapped recently had the brass plate "Autoclean" type of filter ,with the T handle in the top that is turned to clear out the plate stack element.......Lathes generally have low pressure lubrication,and Id think most car engine spin ons would be unsuitable because of the fineness of the filtration.....oil flow practically blocked off as long as the oil was cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john.k View Post
    I noticed a couple of lathes Ive scrapped recently had the brass plate "Autoclean" type of filter ,with the T handle in the top that is turned to clear out the plate stack element.......Lathes generally have low pressure lubrication,and Id think most car engine spin ons would be unsuitable because of the fineness of the filtration.....oil flow practically blocked off as long as the oil was cold.
    Strongly agree!

    Wrong type of filter could do more damage from lube starvation that no filter at
    all did from particulates that should be less than terrible.

    As to non-disposables?

    We covered that on PM a time or two. They are still sold, new.

    Saw most of them on MIL SPEC gear as Diesel Fuel PRE filters - to keep the "big chunks".. usually biological mat growth hunks - from clogging the far finer follow-on filters, sometimes three in a row. The Cuno did its job.

    The others were "permanent element" as well - sintered porous Bronze, usually, and regularly scheduled preventive-maintenance, "take-apart" to clean and flush, but lasted a long time because of the pre-filter.

    Idea was that there be no show-stoppers off the back of inability to get supplies of a disposable filter in the Theatre of Operations under dire conditions.

    Downside is that whilst a Cuno, Hellan, or similar (there are many..) "self cleaning" filter saves money on disposables over long years, the up-front cost for either is a tad EXPENSIVE.

    https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...o-products.pdf

    CUNO™ Self Cleaning Metal Edge Filter Assembly 1107629 500080, Type EG & MEG, 1 Per Case

    Hellan Manual Strainers - Hellan Strainer

  18. #34
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    I replaced the original filter with a spin on SBC remote adapter 10 years ago, because I could not find an original replacement. It's been working fine for 10 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    I replaced the original filter with a spin on SBC remote adapter 10 years ago, because I could not find an original replacement. It's been working fine for 10 years.
    Beside the huge auto/truck/marine and off-road market, my "recent" research was into long-term-storage Diesel fuel preening or "polishing" filters.

    There again housings are flogged that can accept more that a dozen type, micron-level, "etc" cartridges, plain Stainless and Bronze screens, sintered metal "cleanables" included.

    I selected housings I could SEE INTO... a small maglite does the rest.

    Shorter life? Less rugged than metal?

    Surely. But useful enough I called it worthwhile. The gen set wasn't cheap..

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    That thing looks great! Well done on unloading it safely. The Sidney 16x54 dad and I bought was lifted by a 2 post lift, partially under the chippan. Worked fine and we were loaded in <20 minutes.

    Looks like you've got a great candidate for running. Maybe ebay lathes aren't all that bad...

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    What a great machine!!
    Pardon me if I reminisce a little...
    We had a L&S about that size on the submarine tender I was on in the Navy.
    It was the smaller of our 2 Big lathes.
    We didn't get a lot of work for it and guys would fight for the chance to get to run it. Guys would even give up their Liberty Call if it was a priority job just to get to do the job. I remember one job we did:
    The Navy had special protocalls for the material to be used in the nuke subs we worked on. They called it Target Material and you could trace the provenance of the material back to the day and hour of its manufacture.
    So we had a priority job to make some parts out of 303 or 304 stainless (don't remember which now) in the Warner Swasey #5 turret lathe.
    The WS could only handle 3" stock and the only Target material we had was 6".
    So we set that 6"x3' billet in the Lodge&Shipley and turned it down to 3"
    Low speed, peeling off 1/2" at a pass, that old lathe didn't grumble a bit as it carved off heavy, brown colored chips.
    I sat the job while the guy who was running it went to lunch.
    Heaviest hogging I ever did in my life and very memorable to this day though it was 47 years ago.
    Any way, thanks for the memories and thanks for posting the photos and story about buying/moving it.
    I wish you the best of luck in your newest acquisition.

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  23. #38
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    Default Lodge and Shipley Powerturn

    Thank you for the words of support. The reality is that I while I will rarely, if ever, push this machine anywhere close to its limits I do plan on doing SOMETHING stupid to push it at least once... maybe Iíll make myself a really nice toothpick... from 4Ē dia. 4140 PH... in three passes. Or something to that effect.

    I havenít gotten much more than inspection and cleaning done. My paying job has been whooping me the last couple weeks. The more I clean the more convinced I am that the green grit is absolutely abrasive residue. I pulled the compound off and found fairly substantial wear:


    Same with the taper attachment:


    The scoring doesnít show as clearly, but OH! is it there. Quite frankly there isnít a bearing surface Iíve found yet that passes the fingernail test. Even those beautiful, hardened carriage ways arenít as smooth as would be ideal. Dimensionally I think theyíre fine and I hope the substantial wear doesnít prove to also be significant.

    Lodge and Shipley PowerturnLodge and Shipley PowerturnLodge and Shipley Powerturn

    The cross slide ways are by far the best, but even they show evidence that some very hard, very abrasive particulate was dragged across them... a lot.

    Iím no where near any sort of objective testing. The machine is still sitting on wood blocks. Thereís still far too much grit and grime and too many unknowns to even think about moving anything under power. The machine is also still wired for 480v, which I donít have. Even if the machine was wired for 240V, my biggest branch circuit is only 50 amps and Iím pretty certain a 60 amp 240V circuit may be only JUST enough for this machine. I wish I was kidding... firing the work light or coolant pump may push it into breaker-tripping territory.

    Lodge and Shipley did a good job protecting the ways on the cross slide and the design of the compound ways also shields a lot of the surface, but you can see the same scoring on the compound ways:


    Thereís nowhere Iíve found that my nail just skates across. The compound gib was grubby as all hell, but looks to be in fantastic shape:


    As I noted earlier, the machine bears one rebuilders tag. Thereís plenty of evidence of hastily applied paint, but Iím certain both the compound and cross slide nuts are newer than the rest of the iron as thereís hardly any backlash on either screw.

    While the wear Iím finding is substantial, Iím not inclined to see it as SIGNIFICANT... at least not yet. Yes, there is material no longer present... from a machine that the consensus is was terrifically overbuilt. Iím stoning every surface to remove the raised portion of the scrapes and scratches and keeping the positive attitude that I now have lots of places to support bearing surface oil retention.

    Hopefully Iím not being positive to the point of foolhardiness. Honestly Iím not sure if Iíd rather the community lie to me here...

    Lastly, this arrived today as well:


    I bought five of these stickers. Two for each of my home shop lathes, two for the two machines at work and... a spare?!? Found them on eBay, I can give more specifics if thereís any interest.

    Another query for the PM community:

    Neither the Lodge and Shipley, nor my little Clausing (which looks even smaller with the L&S in its proximity) have actual felt way-wipers. No idea what type or grade of rubber theyíre made of, but thereís enough of the mystery green grit on the L&S wipers that Iím not even gonna take time cleaning them.

    Itís my understanding that rubber wipers have some advantages in high-speed/rapid-movement situations. What are the pros and cons of rubber vs. felt? I imagine felt will hold oils far better, but the stiffer rubber likely does a better job of sealing against its mating surface. I know the subject of felt grades has been litigated on the site at length. However, if there are arguments for my specific application, Iím all ears.

    Next up is getting the tailstock off of the bed and taken apart. Little chance I get to it until Sunday at the earliest.




    Be safe





    Jeremy

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    If your ways are in great shape, rubber. Although it only keeps stuff out, it theoretically doesn't re-distribute oil.

    If your ways are badly scored, felt. The felt will pull crap out of the scores and keep it from getting under. On my Sidney lathe the ways are totally ruined, but fresh felt keeps everything out. Of course, once it is totally clogged, it doesn't work to well anymore. On our lathes with ways in good shape, the rubber squeegies any crap off. The ways basically stay dry, it shuffles the oil around inside. Felt will soak up coolant though.

    The most ideal Ideal solution I've seen is rubber covering felt. Best of both worlds, and a backup. It sounds like since your ways have scores, felt would be the answer. I went with F7 due to price. I would probably go with F1 if I did it again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jermfab View Post
    Lastly, this arrived today as well:


    I bought five of these stickers. Two for each of my home shop lathes, two for the two machines at work and... a spare?!? Found them on eBay, I can give more specifics if thereís any interest.
    Add this for your shop.. or your tool drawers, then:

    Warning Label Window Decal | pfrb

    arguments for my specific application, Iím all ears.
    If you are up for "DIY" do a triple layer as the best of the best once used.

    A CLOSE fitted metal outer,
    Rubber wiper back of it,
    Felt oiler/sweeper back of the rubber

    .. and a drip-hole at the top to manually put a drop of oil into the felt periodically. Waylube feed, trapped side, does HALF the rest of the work.

    CHANGING OUT (at least) the felt as it loads-up/degrades does the other half.

    NONE of this s**t is fire-and-forget-forever.

    ALL of it needs kept up with as part of routine preventive maintenance.


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