Lucas #41 HBM Gloat and Help
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  1. #1
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    Default Lucas #41 HBM Gloat and Help

    Hello All,

    We bought this machine over winter and finally got it moved in last week. I am super stoked to make some chips with this old girl. While it isn't in primo condition I'd say its in very good shape considering its age. The column has flaking all over it but the bed and saddle show some miles. However I will be doing mostly steam and gas engine work on it, so no need for aerospace tightness. With all of the tooling that it came with it would have been hard to pass it up. You can see the 2 pallets of MT5 tooling in the pics. Also came with the outboard support or backrest as Lucas calls it in the book. AND it has a DRO which will be extremely useful!

    One neat thing about this machine is the amount of spindle speeds it has. Back gear in, back gear out and high speed, 13 1/2 rpm on the low end and 1500 on the top end. Something this machine has that our old one didn't is 3 ranges to the feed box. On our old Lucas if you were running in back gear the feeds would be courser than if the back gear was out. With this machine you can feed .002/rev in any spindle speed range which I think is a great feature.

    The machine was inspected under power but there are always gremlins that show up when you get something like this home. For example the quill wouldn't feed smooth by hand. After some disassembly we found the pinion which feeds the rack on the quill is burred up pretty severely, so I ordered a cutter and will be making a new one. I'm guessing at some point someone was stuffing a large (dull) drill too hard and it raised the edge of some of the teeth.

    The PO told us that the power feed/rapid traverse would slip. I found the cover for adjusting the clutch but don't have instructions on how to do that, anyone have any insight?

    The spindle socket is in great shape. However the PO was just using a piece of scrap for a tooling keeper. I'd like to have something a little more refined than just bashing a piece of junk in and out of the spindle. A long time ago I stumbled onto the dimensions for the factory Lucas keeper but they have since updated their website and I can't find the info now. I also recall seeing on here a pretty slick method used by Giddings & Lewis on their Morse taper spindles. If anyone had drawings for either or both of those and would like to share it would be appreciated.

    I think that's about it for now, but I'm sure I'll need more help down the road.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dsc00249.jpg   dsc00256.jpg   dsc00250.jpg   dsc00252.jpg   dsc00262.jpg  


  2. #2
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    Nice machine. 1,500 revs is good. The mesh in that chip pan is a great idea. Let's any coolant out you may have accidentally swept up.

    Regards Tyrone.

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  4. #3
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    Instruction Manual and Parts book scans PDFs

    If you care to have them, private message me your EMAIL address

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    I have the LUCAS drawing of the MT5 spindle and keeper keys for our HBM at Tuckahoe, but the file is too big to post here. I'll send via private message tonight.

    On Edit: send me your email address and I'll email the drawings. There does not appear to be a way to attach files to a PM.
    Last edited by Jeff_G; 05-16-2017 at 06:23 PM.

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    That's in good shape for her age!

    The G&L (Davis drawkey) is now at Scott-Baker Company here → http://www.scott-bakerco.com/files/c...4_pg06_jpg.htm

    and here → http://www.scott-bakerco.com/files/c...4_pg07_jpg.htm

    And you can download the pdf catalogs of all their old timey tooling here → http://www.scott-bakerco.com/davis.htm

    Good luck
    Matt

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  10. #6
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    That's a good looking machine. The rotab really makes it great.

    I have a similar size one made by Universal Boring Machine that is probably 20 years older. Thing only has a top speed of 250 rpm. It's replacement is on the semi trailer headed to the shop now.

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwoodcutter View Post
    That's a good looking machine. The rotab really makes it great.

    I have a similar size one made by Universal Boring Machine that is probably 20 years older. Thing only has a top speed of 250 rpm. It's replacement is on the semi trailer headed to the shop now.

    Dan
    Hi Dan, what is the " replacement " ? More information required please.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Thanks for the help and kind words fellas!

    The indexing table is an old G&L I found on here. Wish it had a worm drive but still it has been pretty handy. We have a 24" tilting rotary table in storage. Kinda cool but don't know if we'll ever need to use it. It is a massive hunk of iron. The G&L only weighs 960#'s.

    I just received a reply from Lucas precision regarding my inquiry about the age of this machine.

    She was shipped to Wolverine Tool Co. in Detroit on the 3rd of February 1947.

    A little too late to help win the war but she's in good company with the 1943 Sidney lathe and the 20" LeBlond Heavy Duty from the same era. Ohio made IRON. The #2 Cincy horizontal mill would feel left out if I didn't mention him too. Oh, and the 20" Queen City shaper. And early 16" Ohio shaper....

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    Matt,

    Am I mistaken or are those draw keys still being manufactured?

    PS, When I was sorting thru some of the tooling yesterday I noticed quite a bit of it was labelled Wolverine. That's pretty cool.

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    Take good care of that bar/quill/spindle. It is glass hard Nitralloy as are the bushings it slides in

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    No need to worry. She is gonna be pampered. That's why I'd like to have one of those Davis drive keys.

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    Default Lucas drawbar keys

    Here are the 2 different drawings that Lucas put out for their draw keys.

    draw-key-lucas-5-morse-taper.jpgdraw-key-lucas-5-morse-taper-modified-wear.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by MAMaxwell View Post
    Here are the 2 different drawings that Lucas put out for their draw keys.

    draw-key-lucas-5-morse-taper.jpgdraw-key-lucas-5-morse-taper-modified-wear.jpg
    Interesting to see they use the English spelling of gauge instead of the US gage.

    A few years back I dealt with an Italian company called " Bakuer " that made adjustable draw keys for No 5 Morse spindles. You wound a grub screw in on the end of the key and a tongue came out of the side of the draw key to lock the tool into the spindle. Very neat and effective - no hammer rash on the spindle. Just don't put it in the wrong round !

    Regards Tyrone.

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    I made a draw key similar to the ones shown to hold a Wolly in my radial arm drill. Instead of the elongated plunger shown I just used a 3/16 drill blank. I cut the blank on a 45° angle to transmit the force through the corner and use a 1/4" set screw for adjustment. You could change the angles for more force multiplication. That might be desirable for milling. Mine is for a #4 MT, you have a #5 so you have room for larger components.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBoogie View Post
    Matt,

    Am I mistaken or are those draw keys still being manufactured?
    Never hurts to call & check. They will work with the angle slot morse tapers (made for the wedge key) just fine. You can damage the small screw inside by gorrilla torquing with the allen key. I always seated the taper with a knocker & then just snugged the key up.

    Good luck
    Matt

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  26. #16
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    I emailed them yesterday and received an email a few minutes later. They DO still make them! Pretty cool. I didn't see a 3" Lucas in the catalog but he said measure the slot and they can make one to suit.

    Thanks again everyone.

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    It looks a very nice machine. You have made an excellent purchase.

    K.

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    I received a reply from Scott-Baker in regards to the Davis drawkey. The narrowest one they make is 1/2, the slot in my spindle is 7/16 and some of the tooling is only 3/8 wide. So those factors along with the $890 price tag means that I will be rolling my own.

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    Several years ago js412000 posted a homemade draw key. It is less complicated than the Davis draw key. It is post #5 in the "Repairing spindle on boring mill" thread.

    Repairing spindle on boring mill

    Here are the pictures of it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails drawkey-adjustable.jpg   drawkey-adjustable-1.jpg  

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    Would anyone happen to have a manual for our DRO? It is an ancient specimen called a Futaba Pulscale. A replacement box would be great to find since all the numbers are worn off. But I'm hoping a manual would show what is what, and I'd really like to be able to use the bolt hole function.

    In other news I got the blank turned for the pinion that needs replaced. Hit a snag with the cutter though. Gear is a 6 DP 13 tooth but the #8 cutter I ordered doesn't fit the old gear. Had a gear maker friend look at it and he's coming up with a flat root, 22 1/2° PA. I'm looking into renting a cutter from Ash Gear. Anyone else run into this when making a pinion to engage in a rack?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20170521_104217.jpg   20170520_152050.jpg  


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