Lucas Horizontal Boring Mill going to Tuckahoe . . . - Page 18
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  1. #341
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    Default One good thing about cast iron gears . . .

    Today I finished cleaning and priming the countershaft hangers for the Lucas. Once that was done I shifted gears . . .

    Many folks talk about cutting gear teeth, but they usually are cutting away the metal that is not the gear teeth. Today I cut actual gear teeth -- with a hammer and chisel. I cut each tooth off the main body of the old gears because I plan to press the new gears onto the hubs of original gears -- this requires me to remove the old gear by turning it off its hub in a lathe. Doing this makes the most sense on the driver gear which has an integral spur gear that drives the power feeds. The drven gear's hub is supported on its OD and drives the vertical shaft out of the gearbox with a single captive key -- it is not necessary to use this hub, but it will be easier to treat both gears in the same manner.

    For those who have had to make interrupted cuts, no explanation is needed -- for those who have not, it took three or four "whacks" with a big hammer on a big chisel to make a nice straight notch near the root of a gear tooth and then to break it off in one clean piece. Removing 25 teeth less than ten minutes and was much easier on me and my lathe than a half-hour of cutting off the teeth. I did have a few minutes of interrupted cutting to remove all traces of the teeth and then I was cutting continuously.

    In the Lucas both miter gears are axially located by the "back" surface of the gear, so I will have to control position by facing and shimming (if necessary). This is going to take some care -- it is the same as setting up an automotive ring & pinion without benefit of tooling or the etched numbers on the gears. Fortunately these gears are turning less than 1,000 rpm and are not as sensitive. I am still working out my procedure, but I'll document it in this thread.

    Archie

  2. #342
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    Default New gears . . .

    This week I got back to work on the Lucas gears. I mounted both the new miter gears by turning down the hubs on the old gears and boring the new gears for an interference fit. The three locking pins shown in the picture are the way other gears in the same transmission are mounted, although it is hard to say what is original in such an old machine. A number of gears have other makers' marks, but it could either be a repair or Lucas may have just purchased gears. This was one of their earliest transmissions for the spindle drive, so it is not a very sophisticated design.



    I also got the gear Finegrain made attached to the other two gears in its cluster. Each gear is driven by the same long key, but they are pinned together with two pins so that they may be shifted by one of the gear shifting levers. These steel gears are replacing cast iron gears, so they should hold up for at least another 100 years. Now I can get to assembly & painting.



    P.S.: I ground the thrust faces of the miter gears for the .006" to .009" recommended by Martin Gear. I also did this such that the back cone surfaces matched, also recommended by Martin.
    Last edited by Archie Cheda; 04-27-2012 at 05:36 PM. Reason: add P.S. . . .

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  4. #343
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    Default More cutting teeth . . .

    A few posts back I joked about "cutting teeth" -- today I spent the whole day making teeth smaller. It turns out that the spacing between gear teeth on the intermediate shaft cluster gears (bottom pic) is less than the outside distance of the sliding gears that they mesh with. I thought that the transmission had a lot of abuse, clashing gears when shifting (it had), but the beat up ends of the teeth hid the fact that the length of the gear teeth had been shortened at the factory. All the gears are either 1" or 1-1/4" wide, but unless the teeth were shortened in length slightly, there would be no neutral position between gears. If you look at the two lower left-most gears in the bottom picture and the gears above them, imagining sliding the lower gear to the left, you can see that it is a close thing. The picture below shows a close-up of the nice new gear made for the Lucas by Finegrain -- he is probably chagrined that I have modified it by turning off a tenth of an inch off the ends of the brand new teeth. (I hate interrupted cuts . . .)

    I then had to deburr and chamfer the teeth to provide for easy shifting these sliding gears. While I had this cluster of three gears apart, I flipped the two old gears, requiring their opposite sides to need to be chamfered. I did it all one tooth at a time with my little cant file. (I have to report that it certainly can file.) Because there were a lot of beat up teeth on the five gears that slide and the five gears that they slide into mesh with, I did a lot of filing. I have to say that I enjoy scraping a bit more, but it is nice to know that the gear shifting will be eased a bit. I would point out that unhardened steel gears not only wear on the involute faces, but suffer from careless shifting. If you ever wondered why the lever-shifted gears in a quick-change gearbox resist shifting, it is possible that the ends of the teeth are actually mushroomed such that they will not easily slide into engagement. Whether you want to do a disassembly and a lot of filing is up to you . . .



    The input shaft is at the bottom with its sliding cluster in the center of its three positions. The intermediate shaft is a solid cluster made up of two integral pairs of gears and does not move axially. The top shaft it the output shaft and its double sliding gear moves to the right from the position shown. This gives 2x3= 6 gears, which is doubled by the back-gear in the spindle head.



    Archie

    P.S.: If you take a close look at the 2nd from left gear on the center shaft, what you see is not a graphics artifact -- the teeth are actually worn badly for the first third of the right-ward ends of the gear's teeth. This trans was run a long time with the sliding gear below it only one third engaged. I am hoping to make replacements for the eight remaining old gears on the Tuckahoe Fellows gear shaper, but I am determined to get the Lucas running in time for its century birthday party at the July show at Tuckahoe -- then I can turn to getting the Fellows tooled up and on line.



  5. #344
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    Default Turning with a boring head . . .

    The Lucas came with an electric motor on a factory mount on the transmission, but it was one of those transition machines that was intended to be equally at home with a flat belt from a line-shaft driving its constant speed input pulley. This 12" diameter, 4" wide pulley turns on a plain bearing -- the journal is a boss that is integral with the cover of the transmission. (I'll show the details of the clutch as I assemble it.) The pulley has a bronze bushing that was badly worn -- at least .050" oversize. I could have re-bushed the pulley, but the existing bushing was quite thick, so I went with another option. I bought a replacement cast iron sleeve for an OMC outboard motor, the plan being to turn the boss down slightly to accept the sleeve and then to bore the pulley bushing with suitable clearance for the sleeve's OD.

    It turns out that in order to rotate the trans cover about the axis of the boss, a 20" swing is required -- a bit much for my 16" South Bend. At Tuckahoe we have a South Bend that swings 30", not to mention a 36" Bullard. Rather than wait until the Saturday work party, have to de-mount the chuck with some other work that is in progress, mount a face plate, and then have to replace it all when I was done, I decided to save some gasoline by not driving the 125 miles (each way) and did the cut in my shop.

    Let me first stress that this is not a very conventional way to a do this job and I do not recommend it. On the other hand it went well, although a bit slowly with such a long overhang on the boring bar. I have had a Precision boring/facing head for some years, but because it has a MT#4 shank, I had not yet gotten to try it out. It also seemed appropriate to use an old machine to support the Lucas project, so I set up the trans cover on my Buffalo Forge drill press. Believe it or not, the drill press spindle is pretty tight. The two offset blocks I used to put the boring bar on the outside of the 3" diameter were included with the boring head. The only problem I had was harder spots in the cast iron that would start the boring bar into a resonant vibration. Surface finish was not critical for this application where a sleeve was to be pressed over the machined surface. Here is the first cut, with the boring bar hanging out about 6", mostly out of sight:



    With the boss to diameter, I pressed the sleeve on without disturbing my setup -- I was having so much fun with the boring/facing head that I faced the end of the sleeve, chamfered it, cut the two circumferential oil grooves. I even cut the linear groove by pumping the drill press spindle up & down. With all the spring in the boring bar I could only make shallow cuts, but it will be easy to make them a bit deeper with a small round file. (Please note that the shiny surface is the outer surface of the sleeve not the result of my setup.)



    Archie

    P.S.: I just noticed that I forgot the middle groove -- good thing I did not break down my setup yet! I also need to drill the hole that bring oil from to the grooves.

  6. #345
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    Default Trans is back together . . .

    The transmission went together without much fuss. I spent a lot more time on cleaning and painting than on the mechanical stuff. The clutch itself was not much problem to clean up and re-assemble. The bronze bushing inside the pulley was turned to suit the new surface it runs on. It is a cast iron cone clutch and showed very little sign of wear. This is probably because it was locked in its engaged position and the mill was started and stopped electrically, perhaps from when new. Unfortunately I now have to fabricate the missing throw-out lever and fork. If anyone has detailed pics, it will help me make my replacement parts look more original, but making functional replacements does not appear to be too difficult. (I do have the pivot bar that the fork mounts to.)



    This is the last of the major items, but there are plenty of little things to keep me busy the next month before the Tuckahoe show.

    Archie

  7. #346
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    Default

    Just curious, how are the shafts and gears lubed originally in that trans? This is looking great!

  8. #347
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    Default Primitive lubrication . . .

    The bearings are all soft steel shafting running in bronze bushings. Each one has an oil point -- some more parts I need to order as soon as I figure out how many. There are eight oil points on the trans alone, the total number on the whole machine must be several dozen.

    The gears are all "open" -- they will have Mobilux EP 111 grease applied to them. This black grease has moly-disulfide added and is recommended for "low-speed open gears". I have been happy using it on the change gears on my lathes. (The trans case has openings in the top and bottom that allow for applying grease to the gears without disassembling the transmission.)

    I suppose some of the oil lost from the bearings helps keep the grease from drying out . . .

  9. #348
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    Nice work Archie, the job seems to be coming along fine. Regards Tyrone.

  10. #349
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    Default Nice to get feedback . . .

    Tyrone,

    Thanks for the positive comments -- they really have helped me keep going on this four-year long project.

    I have not forgotten all the final checking of alignments, but the primary goal is to get the Lucas back together in one piece, or at least have all its parts in one county. Once I can traverse all the slides under power, I will be making certain that the column does not need any final scraping on its pads. If all the other alignments are as good as those I checked, it should be fine. Even though the Lucas is 100 years old, I do not think it has been in service for a long time. As some may remember the wear at the column end of the bed was only .002" compared to the unworn opposite end. I scraped .005" ("straight down") because I wanted to get rid of the worst of the galling. I also endeavored to scrape "straight down" on all the table/platen and saddle ways.

    Archie

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    No problem Archie, I won't be bringing my DTI, 4' square and 8' straight edge over the pond to check out your work. You may be pleasantly surprised by your results when you finally check out the machine. You've been very diligent in your work, I wouldn't have done it any differently and probably not any better either. They say God loves a trier so I'm expecting good results. I'll only be looking over your shoulder to offer advice not criticism. All the best Archie, Tyrone.

    Ps, I did send a much longer, more detailed post yesterday but it seems to have vanished into the ether. I'm not up to speed with the new board yet !

  12. #351
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    Default Four years later . . . the Lucas' 100th birthday party . . .

    Finally every last part of the Lucas is at Tuckahoe and the Lucas is ready to make chips:



    The workpiece on the table is a truck transmission housing which I will be line-boring larger and larger during the show.

    The pulleys are not belted up yet, but the countershaft is mounted -- the picture is not upside-down, but shows the ceiling of the Tuckahoe Machine Shop Museum. A lot of my time the last few weeks was spent re-bushing and truing the countershaft components. This countershaft will also drive the Fellows gear shaper which sits next to the Lucas, hence the fast & free pulleys, which the Lucas does not need because of its clutch.



    Below is a pic of the left end of the Lucas showing the all new clutch linkage. These parts were missing, so I "faked a casting" by making a steel weldment consisting of four pieces of round stock and one flat piece bent to form the yoke. I used rollers to engage the groove in the clutch's sliding collar although the original might have been rectangular blocks. I am going to try the long bar as shown before I consider bending it as the original is shown in pictures of this model. (The models before and after used straight horizontal clutch levers.) (For the observant, I have the vertical shaft between the transmission and the head dropped down in order to apply grease to the bevel gears.)



    The Tuckahoe show is this week Thursday through Sunday. I will be there Thursday, Friday, and Saturday -- be sure to stop and say "hi!" if you are there for the show.


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  14. #352
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    Looks a picture Archie. Well done. Best Wishes Tyrone.

  15. #353
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    Absolutely great work Archie.

    Your Buffalo is in great shape to do that kind of work too.

    All the best, Jim

  16. #354
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    Default Details for the record . . .

    Thanks, Tyrone . . .

    Of interest to only a few, but part of documenting this project:

    In the last pic above, there are a lot of exposed spur gears which are covered by a cast iron cover (or two) in pictures of the original machine. These gears carry power from the main gearbox to the feed gearbox and will be covered by a sheet metal cover when I get around to making it. In the original design, these gears also carry power, via a tumbler gear reversing mechanism to the vertical feed of the head along the column. Lucas called this their "Power Quick Motion" which allows "rapid changes in vertical position". The next model Lucas HBM's had a more modern rapid traverse function, which probably served more of the feed motions and was more convenient to use.

    By the time the Lucas came to Tuckahoe, the tumbler gear pinions and the larger gear they drove were missing. I think that they were removed for inspection of the trashed miter gears and were lost. It would not be a great challenge to make these gears, but it is a very low priority for the following reasons:

    o I do not see for a great need for "rapid changes in vertical position" in the future applications of this Lucas.
    o The head is very well counterbalanced -- it actually is slightly easier to crank up than down.
    o It would not be much more trouble to put the feed gearbox into its highest rate for long traverses if one is lazy.
    o There is no interlock, so that if the head feed is engaged and the "Power Quick Motion" was engaged something could be broken.*
    * The feed input has a friction clutch which might prevent damage if it was set up loose enough.

    I do have the engagement arm, although the squeeze lever end is broken off and lost. When the lever is squeezed, a pin is withdrawn from the hole where it is normally parked in neutral. There is only that one hole -- the lever is intended to be held in the up or down position with one hand while the clutch is operated with the other. This of course assumes that the operator is bright enough to use the clutch . . .

    I will be storing the broken lever and documents describing its purpose, along with the two electric motor mounts, in the base of the Lucas for some possible future restoration.

    Archie

  17. #355
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    Wonderful job! Thanks Archie

  18. #356
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    Default Very Impressive Work!

    Archie,

    Wonderful detail! I hope to visit the show this week.

    Its great to see a taste of "Greenfield Village" here on the East Coast for the public to see.
    The entire effort you all made on the shop complex is amazing.

    Best regards,

    Randy Musselman

  19. #357
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    This is truely a fantastic post, the followthrough is such a huge task to meet your goals. As shown in post #351, it is truely something you can hang your hat on.
    Joe
    Last edited by jdavi581; 07-02-2012 at 04:07 PM.

  20. #358
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    The weather is likely to be good this year- forecast is to be a bit cooler than the last few. We have 3 machines newly on the lineshaft- a fabulously complicated universal cylindrical grinder, Smith & Mills shaper and the Lucas. There is also an 8spd Hendey gearhead newly powered w/ electric motor- that one may not be fully operating for the show- the headstock is running but I'm still putting the carriage & whatnot back together.

    Lots of work has been done in the steam and gas engine buildings too.

    7/5 thru 7/8

    Tuckahoe Steam & Gas Association - Home

  21. #359
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    pure art Archie
    I don't suppose it gets a lot better
    congratulations

  22. #360
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    Default Behind the scenes . . .

    I want to give Greg a belated honorable mention -- he diverted his energies from the Hendey lathe to mount the countershaft for the Lucas/Fellows that is pictured above. Hanging a countershaft means working in a hot, dark attic in July -- thanks again Greg.

    Archie


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