Looking at photographs of old machines in books and catalogues, they always have a crispness and depth to them that sits somewhere between illustration and photograph. How was that quality achieved? Were photos touched up after the fact to give them more depth, and to make important details pop?
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Machinery Photographs - How'd They Do That?
- Thread starter Keelan
- Start date
- Replies 30
- Views 6,695
DocsMachine
Titanium
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2005
- Location
- Southcentral, AK
Several things.
One, they were large format cameras. Today we know film cameras as 35mm, but in those days, the photographer might have used a tripod-mounted box camera that made 4" square or even 4x6" negatives. You can put a lot of sharp detail in a negative that size.
Two, the lenses had a relatively small aperture for their focal length, which gave them an extremely wide depth of field- the area, in distance from the lens, that's in focus.
Three, because the film was so slow, you could, in some cases, actually walk through the scene without registering in the photo. A cameraman could then use a shielded lantern to selectively illuminate darker sections of the scene.
And fourth, as each photograph was individually printed and developed, a photographer could 'dodge and burn' the print to even further selectively over or underexpose parts of the image, which could bring up detail in "washed out" sections or dark sections.
Finally, unlike todays virtually cost-free digitals, a single photograph back in those days could cost the modern equivalent of $10 or $20 a frame. That's a pretty good incentive for the cameraman to get the shot right the first time.
Doc.
One, they were large format cameras. Today we know film cameras as 35mm, but in those days, the photographer might have used a tripod-mounted box camera that made 4" square or even 4x6" negatives. You can put a lot of sharp detail in a negative that size.
Two, the lenses had a relatively small aperture for their focal length, which gave them an extremely wide depth of field- the area, in distance from the lens, that's in focus.
Three, because the film was so slow, you could, in some cases, actually walk through the scene without registering in the photo. A cameraman could then use a shielded lantern to selectively illuminate darker sections of the scene.
And fourth, as each photograph was individually printed and developed, a photographer could 'dodge and burn' the print to even further selectively over or underexpose parts of the image, which could bring up detail in "washed out" sections or dark sections.
Finally, unlike todays virtually cost-free digitals, a single photograph back in those days could cost the modern equivalent of $10 or $20 a frame. That's a pretty good incentive for the cameraman to get the shot right the first time.
Doc.
Forrest Addy
Diamond
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- Dec 20, 2000
- Location
- Bremerton WA USA
I think Doc is right on the money. Ansel Adams wrote a book on industrial and commercial photography. He had a lot to say about large format camers with swings and tilts to correct perspective effects and making your own glass plates and formulating your own darkroom chemicals. Time consuming certainly but oh! what marvelous results.
I bought an 8 x 10 field camera once back in the old days and shot a package of film (load film carriers in the darkroom needless to say.) I photographed a number of decrepit pioneer buildings and old sawmills and what amazing detail you could get in the huge negative and the small aperture. For example, you could read "Plumb" stenciled in the head of a rusty old ax in the grain focuser and the ax was 80 feet away from the camera.
Good hobby but expensive and time consuming. These days if I was so motivated I could do the same images with a (borrowed) modern 16 Mpixel camera with superpixellation and Photoshop in one percent of the per image time and cost. And you don't come out of the darkroom smelling like salad dressing gone bad.
I bought an 8 x 10 field camera once back in the old days and shot a package of film (load film carriers in the darkroom needless to say.) I photographed a number of decrepit pioneer buildings and old sawmills and what amazing detail you could get in the huge negative and the small aperture. For example, you could read "Plumb" stenciled in the head of a rusty old ax in the grain focuser and the ax was 80 feet away from the camera.
Good hobby but expensive and time consuming. These days if I was so motivated I could do the same images with a (borrowed) modern 16 Mpixel camera with superpixellation and Photoshop in one percent of the per image time and cost. And you don't come out of the darkroom smelling like salad dressing gone bad.
northernsinger
Titanium
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- Aug 19, 2004
- Location
- New England
That may depend on ... how you go in to the dark room.
USMCPOP
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2005
- Location
- Midlothian, Virginia
Some of you may be interested in the Gigapixel camera project. The guy uses 9" x 18" film.
http://www.gigapxl.org/technology.htm
Check out this sample pic and scroll down to see the detail!
http://www.gigapxl.org/gallery-WhitePass.htm
http://www.gigapxl.org/technology.htm
Check out this sample pic and scroll down to see the detail!
http://www.gigapxl.org/gallery-WhitePass.htm
machine1medic
Titanium
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2006
- Location
- Clover Hill district, WI
As recently as the 1980's, the firm I worked for had a guy
come with a (then modern) box camera that didn't look
much different than a civil war camera.
All the product'c ipics were done like this for the manuals.
He would use hnad-held illumination like described above.
Razor sharp B&W's for the field manuals.
m1m
Dick; That second link is awsome, down at the bottom.
Thanks.
m1m
come with a (then modern) box camera that didn't look
much different than a civil war camera.
All the product'c ipics were done like this for the manuals.
He would use hnad-held illumination like described above.
Razor sharp B&W's for the field manuals.
m1m
Dick; That second link is awsome, down at the bottom.
Thanks.
m1m
Ries
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2004
- Location
- Edison Washington USA
HAER, which is the Historic American Engineering Record, a division of the library of Congress, employs photographers right now that take pictures every bit as good as the old ones you are talking about.
http://www.nps.gov/history/hdp/haer/index.htm
As mentioned, it requires using the right camera, and having the experience to know how to do more than point and shoot. And its also expensive- my tax dollars at work, and I am happy to spend em.
Contemporary photographers like Jet Lowe, who has worked taking pictures of industry for at least 30 years, are still taking pictures like that.
browse the Haer site, there are lots of amazing shots.
There are some great books about Industrial Archeology that feature modern shots like this as well- I buy em when I find em.
http://www.nps.gov/history/hdp/haer/index.htm
As mentioned, it requires using the right camera, and having the experience to know how to do more than point and shoot. And its also expensive- my tax dollars at work, and I am happy to spend em.
Contemporary photographers like Jet Lowe, who has worked taking pictures of industry for at least 30 years, are still taking pictures like that.
browse the Haer site, there are lots of amazing shots.
There are some great books about Industrial Archeology that feature modern shots like this as well- I buy em when I find em.
MyrtleLake
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Location
- Chicago, IL
Any professional photographer taking product shots *should* be using at least a medium format camera (120mm). Otherwise they aren't worth the money, IMO. Digital has basically reached the resolution of film at this point. If your cameraman is using those systems, however, it is a top-notch job. Those aren't even cheap to rent for the day.
More on point to your question, though, is that the era of photography you are referring to is more than likely the B/W era. Having a BFA in photography and having worked in the profession, I can say that shooting B/W takes a completely different eye & mindset to shooting color. There are different variables for lighting, contrast and composition. A color shot will look "blank" in B/W if it is converted after-the-fact.
What you are most likely noticing is this difference in quality between the two. In this case, I simply mean the aspects of the two processes. They are different, even if grossly similar.
On my end, I really appreciate good color industrial photography for the mixed lighting situations. A talented photographer can accentuate and use the different hues from natural, incandescent, fluorescent, gas-discharge, and plain old fire (sparks, molten metal, etc). Industrial environments provide a rich combination of the above, which is why they are much more challenging to shoot in than a controlled studio environment.
More on point to your question, though, is that the era of photography you are referring to is more than likely the B/W era. Having a BFA in photography and having worked in the profession, I can say that shooting B/W takes a completely different eye & mindset to shooting color. There are different variables for lighting, contrast and composition. A color shot will look "blank" in B/W if it is converted after-the-fact.
What you are most likely noticing is this difference in quality between the two. In this case, I simply mean the aspects of the two processes. They are different, even if grossly similar.
On my end, I really appreciate good color industrial photography for the mixed lighting situations. A talented photographer can accentuate and use the different hues from natural, incandescent, fluorescent, gas-discharge, and plain old fire (sparks, molten metal, etc). Industrial environments provide a rich combination of the above, which is why they are much more challenging to shoot in than a controlled studio environment.
Thanks for all the responses -- Another case of technology (slowly) replacing art and skill.
I dug out my scanner to grab some example photos from a book, but thanks to the constantly changing nature of technology, I need to add a new CCD scanner to my wish-list. So, out came the digital camera...
Are those illustrations, or touched-up photographs or a bit of both?
I dug out my scanner to grab some example photos from a book, but thanks to the constantly changing nature of technology, I need to add a new CCD scanner to my wish-list. So, out came the digital camera...
Are those illustrations, or touched-up photographs or a bit of both?
MyrtleLake
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Location
- Chicago, IL
100% photolithography. A light sensitive plate is exposed to a negative and then processed to expose an image on a plate. The plate is then immersed in an acid bath. The substrate allows only the exposed areas to be acid etched. The length of time left in the acid affects overall image/contrast on the final print (i.e. how much relief is created directly affects the quantity of ink held by the plate). Then the plate is inked up and run through a traditional lithography-type press. Hence, it retains a similar look to a hand-illustrated lithograph or etching, but it is directly made by a photographic negative.
Did it in college as an elective for my photo degree
Did it in college as an elective for my photo degree
MyrtleLake
Stainless
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Location
- Chicago, IL
Oh, forgot to add that after you expose the plate, you can "hand illustrate", touch up, or whatever you want to the resulting image---in the traditional litho/etching method.
tgw
Aluminum
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2005
- Location
- Central Texas
Catalog Illustrations
Those sharp looking catalog photos like you posted were retouched from original photographs or drawings. Before the days of Photoshop, illustrations were generally retouched using an airbrush with real air.
If you have access to a good library there are a lot of good airbrushing textbooks that show how it's done. The Paasche Company published some interesting how to books for using their airbrushes. Some of these might be available on Google.
I also have some old drafting textbooks that have some description of the pre-press techniques for photographs and drawings.
I am sure it is a lot easier now with computers. I have never done any of this but it is interesting and requires a lot of skill and artistic ability.
Terry
Those sharp looking catalog photos like you posted were retouched from original photographs or drawings. Before the days of Photoshop, illustrations were generally retouched using an airbrush with real air.
If you have access to a good library there are a lot of good airbrushing textbooks that show how it's done. The Paasche Company published some interesting how to books for using their airbrushes. Some of these might be available on Google.
I also have some old drafting textbooks that have some description of the pre-press techniques for photographs and drawings.
I am sure it is a lot easier now with computers. I have never done any of this but it is interesting and requires a lot of skill and artistic ability.
Terry
Conrad Hoffman
Diamond
- Joined
- May 10, 2009
- Location
- Canandaigua, NY, USA
Slightly OT, but I always find it interesting that many of us went to school for one thing and ended up doing another. I went for photography and ended up an electromechanical designer and pretty decent machinist. The best programmer I ever met was a geologist.
CH
CH
Clive603
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2008
- Location
- Sussex, England
The gigapixel site is fascinating and the tech info section very good. Makes an excellent stab at explaining things at a level appropriate to the normal interested intelligent person.
As a one time pro in the lens and imaging system performance assessment area, albeit more infra-red than visible, I found the discussion of what they did and why they did it interesting. It also raised questions as to the approach used which seemed very 1970's - 1980's era. I would have expected much more exploitation of the image restoration capabilities available when you digitally scan, especially if the lens was characterised digitally using LSP or PSF methods to measure MTF. The theoretical basis for such processing was pretty much nailed down when I was working in the field but in those days only mainframes had the power to handle the calculation.
Clive
As a one time pro in the lens and imaging system performance assessment area, albeit more infra-red than visible, I found the discussion of what they did and why they did it interesting. It also raised questions as to the approach used which seemed very 1970's - 1980's era. I would have expected much more exploitation of the image restoration capabilities available when you digitally scan, especially if the lens was characterised digitally using LSP or PSF methods to measure MTF. The theoretical basis for such processing was pretty much nailed down when I was working in the field but in those days only mainframes had the power to handle the calculation.
Clive
Last edited:
Peter S
Diamond
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- May 6, 2002
- Location
- Auckland, New Zealand
Not "shop photos" , but some of the nicest, most clever, technical photos I have come across were in the 1950's-60's GM Service Manuals (e.g. Chevrolet). The photos will show an assembly of parts, say the front suspension, but only the specific part in question will be seen sharply, the other parts appear in opaque form. The opaque parts are still perfectly clear, just made much more indistinct. This is a lot more classy than merely painting out the background, because it allows you to see the relationship of all the parts together. Unfortunately I don't have any of my old Chev manuals to scan. Modern manuals like Haynes and Bentley are very second-rate in comparison.
stnecut
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2008
- Location
- Massachusetts, USA
Here's another one for ya
I went to school to study Architecture and Structural Engineering. After one year in the field I ended up as a natural stone carver/stone shop manager. Now I manage IT Helpdesks for large corporations.
I went to school to study Architecture and Structural Engineering. After one year in the field I ended up as a natural stone carver/stone shop manager. Now I manage IT Helpdesks for large corporations.
Toms Wheels
Titanium
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- Dec 30, 2005
- Location
- Jersey Shore
So from the Stone Age to IT in one lifetime, Wow!!
Mike C.
Diamond
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- Nov 25, 2004
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
If you happen to be in the Dayton, Ohio area, check out the USAF Museum. They have an exhibit on the camera out of the RB-36. It used 36x36" film. Needless to say, the detail in the prints on exhibit is pretty astonishing.
Jim Christie
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
- Location
- L'Orignal, Ontario Canada
Keelan ,
Thanks for starting this thread
I was interested to read about the gigapixel project and I shared the link with some
friends with an intrest in photography that don't watch this forum .
It is interesting to learn from the wide range of experience of the memebers of this forum
Incase you missed it a month or so ago there was some more discussion about shop photography in this thread started by Asquith .
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/aspects-old-shop-photography-187463.html
Regards,
jim
Thanks for starting this thread
I was interested to read about the gigapixel project and I shared the link with some
friends with an intrest in photography that don't watch this forum .
It is interesting to learn from the wide range of experience of the memebers of this forum
Incase you missed it a month or so ago there was some more discussion about shop photography in this thread started by Asquith .
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php/aspects-old-shop-photography-187463.html
Regards,
jim
I was thinking about this thread today, and my comment about "lost arts". This isn't a lost art -- instead of air-brushing in hilights and shadows, and emphasizing details on machines, today's airbrush artists are removing moles, acne, wrinkles, and emphasizing... other things. Sort of reflects the direction that our society is headed in.
Regardless, I will be viewing those old machinery photos with an increased level appreciation.
Regardless, I will be viewing those old machinery photos with an increased level appreciation.
