Monarch 14x30 (1942), Leblond dual drive 15x42 for sale (was A couple of lathes...)
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  1. #1
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    Default Monarch 14x30 (1942), Leblond dual drive 15x42 for sale (was A couple of lathes...)

    I am wondering if someone here could give me some info on these old machines.
    One is a Leblond dual drive 15x42
    The other is a Monarch 14x30 - built 1942.
    I need a lathe with a spindle speed of about 1000 rpms. Do either of these old beautys meet that need?
    There is also a Cincinnati about that same size.
    I don't know much about that brand.
    Thank you for any info.

    6b2a7a50-ed0a-4484-800b-acde016b1afb.jpg
    Thank you.0207675b-52d3-4783-b5fb-acde016b242a.jpg0435aa36-194c-48c6-a7b0-acde016b1100.jpg

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    "Dual Drive" combines both geared speeds and belt speeds - may go there

    The 14" Monarch may go there - its likely to be the 12" that swings 14 1/2"

    Maybe you should ASK seller?

    Lots of info at Vintage Machinery

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2102/23633.pdf

    Have fun

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    If both meet your speed need or close to it ,condition and tooling then makes the decision . All being reasonably equal I like the Monarch but, do note what their power requirements are. That issue may affect your decision.

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    Thanks guys,
    Johnoder, the lathe in the pdf file you linked to does look like the Monarch lathe I'm looking at.

    Have you any idea - based upon build date - what the max rpm of this lathe might be?
    These lathes are at an auction 150 miles away and auctioneer is not responsive to calls and emails. I found a youtube vid of a similar Leblond Dual Drive. His turns 1800 rpm which would be awesome. I do like the helical gears in the Monarch tho but not if it turns under 1000 rpm.
    PS, What does the CK in the model # stand for?
    M0f96d94d-fb96-40ea-89b6-acde016b190f.jpg

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    The the cabinet next to the monarch. Probably holds tooling for the monarch.

    Are the chucks made to go those speeds?

    Hal

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    Have you any idea - based upon build date - what the max rpm of this lathe might be?
    Maybe 1200 max - all done with motor sheave and appropriate length belts. In other words, you could probably have a 1942 CK with less than 500 top end. Depended entirely on what the original purchaser had in mind for use and by whom. Monarch was as accommodating as possible considering what was going on in those days on a global scale - and the fact that many purchases were by the various military in QUANTITY

    If you can get them to take a READABLE photo of the long bronze tag on the head stock, you will be able to see just what it does for speeds - including input sheave RPM

    CK just means their wonderful little 12" (14 1/2" actual) toolroom lathe with such niceties as Lead Screw Reverse on apron

    Here is their 1934 brochure on the CK

    http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/17531.pdf

    As to file, I'll guess you meant to say LeBlond

    the lathe in the pdf file you linked to does look like the Monarch lathe I'm looking at.

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    If i were in the market for a 1000+ RPM machine, i would be all over this guy assuming it's in good condition:

    METAL LATHE - tools - by owner - sale
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screenshot-2021-03-03-8.52.33-am.jpg  

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    My 12ck only goes to 550, although I think I have a bigger pulley than stock, never measured speed

    THe CK is a really nice machine and it might be able to spin that, but it is not made for fast, it is made for strong

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultradog MN View Post
    Thanks guys,
    Johnoder, the lathe in the pdf file you linked to does look like the Monarch lathe I'm looking at.

    Have you any idea - based upon build date - what the max rpm of this lathe might be?
    These lathes are at an auction 150 miles away and auctioneer is not responsive to calls and emails. I found a youtube vid of a similar Leblond Dual Drive. His turns 1800 rpm which would be awesome. I do like the helical gears in the Monarch tho but not if it turns under 1000 rpm.
    PS, What does the CK in the model # stand for?
    M0f96d94d-fb96-40ea-89b6-acde016b190f.jpg
    nameplate.jpg

    cousins!

    CK is the tool room, which has a few detail differences, I think lead screw reverse and maybe the quick clamp tailstock

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    The PW is so overpriced its a joke, I just sent better lathes to the scrap yard, go to the auction. The top speeds can be increased to 1000rpm on all the lathes you have shown with pulley change or vfd , you will need a vfd if you are going to run 3 phase machine on single phase anyway or a rfc...Phil

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    Gustofson thanks,
    They were both built during the time of the Battle of the Coral Sea. Too late to be of use making repairs needed from that event but they might have seen use fixing things after the Battle of The Bismarck Sea (March 1943)
    Pretty cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    The PW is so overpriced its a joke, I just sent better lathes to the scrap yard, go to the auction. The top speeds can be increased to 1000rpm on all the lathes you have shown with pulley change or vfd , you will need a vfd if you are going to run 3 phase machine on single phase anyway or a rfc...Phil
    Not following you.
    Do you mean all three of the lathes I posted photos of are junk? Can you explain how you determined that.
    PW? Pratt and Whitney?
    I will use a phase converter, not a VFD.
    Edit:
    Never mind.
    The first time I clicked on Marka12161's link it went nowhere.
    Now I see it.

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    I do love my EE, but the action on the CK is so fast, and the brute horsepower, take an inch off the diameter then finish to half a thou, it is an incredible machine in its own right

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    I went and looked at these lathes today.
    Monarch CK12 (14x30)1and Leblond Dual drive 15x42.
    Both are still under power so I could check all their gears and functions. No stock or cutting tools there so I couldn't actually put them work.
    Both have similar wear on the ways - about 10 thou over the useable length.
    Interestingly enough on both of them the 'dip' began about 16-20" away from the headstock. Made me wonder if they spent their lives doing long work of some sort.
    Similar backlash on all the cross and compound dials - about 3/8 turn.
    Gibs on both needed tightening.
    Monarch clutch was a little noisy and the handle wanted to "droop" a bit and the chuck spin slowly if you didn't positively lift it full up. Then it stopped fine.
    Gears on both lathes were relatively quiet and no tinkng or clunking of a missing gear tooth in either. Monarch does have 1K rpm which is important to me. It also has a pair of dials on the carriage which shows the distance traveled that was interesting but it did make the apron a little harder to move.
    Leblond Dual drive is 15x42. 1800 rpm which I don't think I need. Sure is a lot easier to select the gear you want with one handle instead of 4.
    Both lathes had 3 and 4 jaw chucks. Monarch also has a collet chuck, face and drive plate. And it has a taper attachment. Monarch has feed reversing handle on the carriage which is nice. Leblond did not have those extras. Neither one has a steady rest. Waahh.
    Interestingly enough the two machines were within about 4" in overall length of despite the Leblond having a full 12" longer C to C.
    The foot print of the Monarch is huge - like a big hefty gal you'd like to go have a romp with.
    Generally, I was only able to give a cursory inspection to the two. It would take a month or two of daily use to decide which you liked better. And perhaps more importantly, it's been 45 years since I was a machinist in the Navy and though I still know what a lathe does and what most of those levers do I have forgotten most of what little I knew about them.
    I'm kinda leaning toward the hefty gal but wouldn't mind the Leblond either.
    I just don't know which way to go. Wish I could have had a couple/few of you guys there today to give me some insight.
    Have I written enough to help you guys form an opinion on which one to pick?
    It's an auction so I need to be decisive.
    Which one should I bid on? Also, which one might be worth more or better yet, which one will go cheaper?
    Thanks for any insight you might give.
    Jerry

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    The LeBlond looks like it has a threaded spindle nose. It will probably go for a very low price. The Cincinnati Tray Top lathe, it's sitting next to two belt sanders. Pass on it!!! The Monarch is my choice. The only drawback is the short center distance. But really, how much work do you do that would need a longer center distance? Very little in most small shops has been my experience. The only issue I see with the monarch is, with all the tooling, especially the collet chuck and collets, it will probably go for $$$$ IMO. Could be wrong.... Ken

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    The chuck is threaded but is the type with keyed taper and ring.

  20. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultradog MN View Post
    The chuck is threaded but is the type with keyed taper and ring.

    Known as the L type - made in LOO thru L3 sizes. An example size - L1 - has a 7.5" OD ring

    Member WalterA (and now his daughter) make and sell great examples of the needed Hook spanner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultradog MN View Post
    The chuck is threaded but is the type with keyed taper and ring.
    Yep, closer look at the pictures, it is L style nose, sorry. My wrong!

    That case, might be worth buying.

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    Well,
    Auction was this morning.
    I couldn't make up my mind and the Monarch came up first.
    So I bought it.
    Still had a bit of dough left so when the Leblond came up I bid on it too and got that one also.
    I will get them home and play with them a bit Then choose.
    There was an 18% buyers fee. Yes EIGHTEEN PERCENT (ouch) plus almost 8% sales tax.
    Together they cost me $2407
    Am hoping I can sell one and keep the other for pretty cheap.

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    that's the best way I know of to solve choosing between two things - get both! Only instance that doesn't work is with women

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