Monarch 61 vs Pacemaker Lathe
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  1. #1
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    Default Monarch 61 vs Pacemaker Lathe

    I'm considering a few lathes. Travel is too far to see in person. I'd be buying through pics or vids, if it happens.

    One is a catalog 16" Actual 18.5" Monarch 61 from 1956. Of the lathes I'm looking at I'm leaning toward it. It looks in the best shape of the three. 24 to 1000 rpm spindle speed. Ways look real nice in pics. Has taper attachment and Aloris tool post. One 3 jaw chuck. No extra holders, tooling, or steady rest. Listed as 54 or 56" bed, but seems a little longer than the others.

    There's a 14" x 54" Pacemaker. 1500 spindle speed. Has taper attachment. No tool post, steady rest, or tooling. Ways look ok, maybe not perfect. Hard to tell from pics.

    A 16" x 54" Pacemaker. Looks a little rough. Price is attractive. 1500 spindle speed. 3 and 4 jaw chuck and steady rest. No taper attachment, robbed I think.

    Also a Monarch 16 CY. Price is attractive, ways look really decent. 4 jaw chuck, Aloris tool post, and taper attachment. Top spindle speed at a blazing 487 rpm !

    In watching vids, the Monarch 61's seem the most quiet during operation. I really like the look of the Pacemakers and the 1500 spindle speeds. All the bed lengths are pretty close on the ones I'm looking at.

    Just curious for some feed back or opinions.

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    I have both, I like the Monarch a little better, always buy what is in the best conx...I have seen monarchs so badly beat up I would not take it home. There is a diff between worn and beat. Worn can be fixed...beat is a different story. But never buy a Lathe unseen...It always leads to a disappointment...Phil

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    In practice, Pacemakers and Monarchs are just about the same. Pacemakers shift a little faster and easier. Otherwise, six of one, half dozen of the other.

    Condition will matter more than anything else.

    But ... Texas gunsmith ? For small parts, I am not sure either one is the best you could get. If I were not a rabid Pacemaker fan, I'd be looking for a Mori or maybe even a Colchester. Not that they are more accurate, but those are handier for smaller parts.

    Oops, simulpost with Phil ... but ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    I have both, I like the Monarch a little better, ...
    How can you do that ? The levers work backwards. You can remember which is which when you drive into a corner?

    You're better than me, buddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post

    But ... Texas gunsmith ? For small parts, I am not sure either one is the best you could get. If I were not a rabid Pacemaker fan, I'd be looking for a Mori or maybe even a Colchester. Not that they are more accurate, but those are handier for smaller parts.
    I really need to change my user name, . When I joined Practical Machinist, I was doing that more as a side, and carried that user name here from those types of forums. With regulation changes, its really not worth it these days.

    In my day job I generally do heavier work. At my home shop, could be heavy or light.

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    Never been a problem, I run Monarch type 61, 10ee, and 62, a pacemaker, and lodge and shiply and a old American tool works 36x120 sometimes 2 at a time in long cuts...Phil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    .... in long cuts...
    Yeah, your stuff looks pretty big. It's when you come up to a shoulder that the backwards-lever screws me up. Sliding gears with fork grooves have lots of shoulders.

    Watch the dial, to the number, push th ... oops, pull the ... oh shit


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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil in Montana View Post
    I have both, I like the Monarch a little better, always buy what is in the best conx...I have seen monarchs so badly beat up I would not take it home. There is a diff between worn and beat. Worn can be fixed...beat is a different story. But never buy a Lathe unseen...It always leads to a disappointment...Phil
    I agree about not buying a machine without viewing it. I'd want to see it under power also if at all possible.

    Regards Tyrone.

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    Useful fact - Pacemakers got hard ways mostly AFTER WW2, Monarch before

    Yes, there is at least one PM on the forum that is early forties AND hard ways - but ALL the early forties Monarchs are

    You can walk around the tail end of any PM and immediately see if it has hard ways or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Useful fact - Pacemakers got hard ways mostly AFTER WW2, Monarch before

    Yes, there is at least one PM on the forum that is early forties AND hard ways - but ALL the early forties Monarchs are

    You can walk around the tail end of any PM and immediately see if it has hard ways or not
    Another thing on my mind is parts and info. Even if I need to buy a donor machine, my chances of finding pieces seem to be greater with the Monarchs.

    I think for general support, a lot more guys around know something about them too.

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    Dont let the low rpm of that 16cy bother you to much, I have a 16cw with a 1200 rpm top speed. I am pretty sure that the only thing monarch did to change the rpm's is to swap motor pulley and the gear shift speed nameplate. Any of that type monarch should do 1200 rpm without concern, with a pulley change or VFD. Gear noise is more at the higher speeds though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Dont let the low rpm of that 16cy bother you to much, I have a 16cw with a 1200 rpm top speed. I am pretty sure that the only thing monarch did to change the rpm's is to swap motor pulley and the gear shift speed nameplate. Any of that type monarch should do 1200 rpm without concern, with a pulley change or VFD. Gear noise is more at the higher speeds though.
    I was thinking that should be a possibility with those spindle bearings. I just did know if I could get a 1000 rpm out of a CY.
    Last edited by texasgunsmith; 07-13-2020 at 11:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I was thinking that should be a possibility with those spindle bearings. I just did know if I could get a 1000 ram out of a CY.

    A smart thing to do as a prelude is to have oil lines off AT SPINDLE BEARINGS and run slow with cover off and see if the Bijur metering units still flow oil - they often turn out to be PLUGGED

    (if you DON'T run slow, you are in for an oil shower)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Dont let the low rpm of that 16cy bother you to much, I have a 16cw with a 1200 rpm top speed. I am pretty sure that the only thing monarch did to change the rpm's is to swap motor pulley and the gear shift speed nameplate. Any of that type monarch should do 1200 rpm without concern, with a pulley change or VFD. Gear noise is more at the higher speeds though.
    Quite a few years ago I talked to an Engineer at Monarch. I was told that to supply requested spindle speed range only thing that was done was change motor pulley size or motor RPM plus the needed speed chart. So there should be any problem increasing spindle speed within limits.

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    Well, came to a decision. After going back and forth a bit, decided on the Monarch Series 61.

    The 16CY was a close runner up, especially after hearing thoughts from you guys. The 16 CY was cheaper and had taper attachment, but was missing bed clamp. Also the Aloris tool post was piston type.

    In thinking about it, the Series 61 really had what I wanted, the style and look, hardened ways, and naturally already at a 1000 rpm spindle speed (maybe I'll push it to 1200 ). Plus Monarch still being in business helps, though god knows what new replacements parts cost, lol. Oh and wedge type Aloris as well.

    Pacemakers are simply awesome looking machines with a lot of attention to detail. But the particular machines I was looking at I just didn't feel they were treated well, and I couldn't verify hardened ways or not.

    Against better judgement, I purchased without physically laying eyes on it. But I do have 30 days to return if turns out to be a train wreck, though I'll eat shipping. With time, and cost of travel I figured I'll take my chances. Fingers crossed

    I don't have shipping details yet, guessing I'll receive in the next week or two.

    Checking out some other restorations helped pushed me towards this one as well. Some example pics:

    16.jpg 18.jpg 19.jpg

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    I have a number of pics of the one I purchased. It''l probably take me 3 posts to get them all in.

    At some point I'll probably start a thread on it in the Monarch section.

    1.jpg 2.jpg 3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg

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    2nd set of pics:

    6.jpg 7.jpg 8.jpg 9.jpg 10.jpg

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    3rd set of pics:

    12.jpg 11.jpg 13.jpg 14.jpg 15.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    A smart thing to do as a prelude is to have oil lines off AT SPINDLE BEARINGS and run slow with cover off and see if the Bijur metering units still flow oil - they often turn out to be PLUGGED

    (if you DON'T run slow, you are in for an oil shower)
    Spindle speed is irrelevant to this, the input shaft is will still be whizzing along if you're not careful with the clutch handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post

    In thinking about it, the Series 61 really had what I wanted, the style and look, hardened ways, and naturally already at a 1000 rpm spindle speed (maybe I'll push it to 1200 ). Plus Monarch still being in business helps, though god knows what new replacements parts cost, lol. Oh and wedge type Aloris as well.
    They'll provide anything you need, but best be sitting down when the quote comes back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmanuelGoldstein View Post


    How can you do that ? The levers work backwards. You can remember which is which when you drive into a corner?

    You're better than me, buddy
    Drive a skid steer with your hands, bucket with feet, others with hand controls only.
    Drive an excavator with your feet, bucket with your hands.
    Drive a plane with your feet and your hands (always stay coordinated ! unless your slipping it in short) Some with a wheel, others with a stick.
    Drive a dozer any one of at least 4 ways, pedal clutch & handle brake, pedal steer combined brake & clutch, handle steer (clutch & brake), single joystick for both clutches & brakes.

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    Nice - has lead screw reverse on apron. And still has the rod thru the T/A clamp - Monarch added this some years before to help coax T/A clamp along the bed way (when T/A not in use) instead of cocking and busting off lip inside rear way

    dcp_0964.jpg

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