MTFCA Museum seeking line shaft driven Vertical Mill.

W_Higgins · Nov 9, 2018

The Model T Ford Club of America Museum in Richmond, Indiana has included a line shaft machine shop in their display and would like add a Vertical Mill to the other machines they have already acquired.

Space is limited, so the smaller the better. Suggested footprint is 3' x 3', though there might be room to go a little bigger. Condition something around average. They would like to run it eventually, but it won't be in regular service. Projects needing a total rebuild and scraping are not desired. Of course, the closer to Richmond, Indiana the better, but willing to travel a reasonable distance for retrieval.

This initial effort is just to see if there's an orphan machine out there that needs a good home. If anybody knows the whereabouts of something that might fit the bill, we'd appreciate knowing. Thanks!

enginebill · Nov 9, 2018

There aren't many that survive. I have only seen a couple. I do have one in my shop but I am working on setting it up in my shop. It is a No.22 Garvin and is the same size that you are looking for.

L Vanice · Nov 9, 2018

Vertical mills were not very common or popular in the line shaft era. I can suggest a circa 1915-1929 Cataract vertical miller by Hardinge Brothers of Chicago. Here is a picture of one from a circa 1915 catalog. The table is about 3" by 12" and it takes 3C collets (called Cataract No. 3 Draw-in Chucks in the catalog).

Good luck finding one. I have one that is incomplete and think I saw one other on eBay years ago. There were some competitors of Hardinge in that period that may have made verticals, but I don't know of any.

Larry

Andy FitzGibbon · Nov 9, 2018

I'd suggest an early Van Norman duplex mill. More versatile than a dedicated vertical, and easier to find in line shaft drive.

Andy

W_Higgins · Nov 9, 2018

Keep the good suggestions coming!

I figured a vertical would be difficult to find, but it never hurts to ask. I'm awaiting an answer as to whether a horizontal would be acceptable. That may already duplicate something they have.

TedinNorfolk · Nov 10, 2018

Belt drive milling machines haven't,in general,survived the ages so well.

Jim Christie · Nov 10, 2018

I don’t know of any for sale but here are a few more ideas.

There have been some smaller Becker or Brainard-Becker vertical mills shown in threads on this forum you can search this forum to find them .
Vintage machinery also has some Becker info.
Becker Milling Machine Co. - Publication Reprints - Vertical Milling Machines | VintageMachinery.org
Also
Becker No. 2 Vertical Miller
Brown and Sharpe also made Verticals
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...quest-315016/?highlight=Brown+Sharpe+Vertical
Maybe the No . 1 vertical is too large and I don’t know if the made # 0 vertical
Perhaps a # 1 horizontal with a vertical head
A treatise on the construction and use of milling machines made by Brown & Sharpe mfg. co., Providence, R.I., U.S.A., manufacturers of machinery and tools
I don’t see a listing for a vertical head for a # 0 but they may not have made one for that.
Here is a link to an article about a Knight Drill Mill
Starts Here
Iron age
This modified one is in a current thread that looks like it might be a larger model .
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ified-w-b-knight-mill-drill-2-bp-head-352222/

Regards,
Jim

Joe in NH · Nov 10, 2018

They are out there but one has to be patient - or well heeled.

A Warner-Swasey early mill was seen on the Vermont Craigslist about three years ago. I woke up too late but since it went nearly the entire 45 day "craiglist interval" I assume it is still there - and may show up again on Craggie.

Cope's Milling Machine book reports this as a "light duty" or die-sinker mill more adapted to brasswork trade.

Joe in NH

adh2000 · Nov 10, 2018

I would sell my line shaft driven Van Norman.

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adh2000 · Nov 10, 2018

Can be vertical or horizontal, duplex maybe they call it. $600.

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DDoug · Nov 10, 2018

W_Higgins said:
The Model T Ford Club of America Museum in Richmond, Indiana

Why isn't it in Deetroit ?..... :crazy:

Mud · Nov 10, 2018

adh2000 said:
I would sell my line shaft driven Van Norman.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very cool, that's the first one of them I've seen.

W_Higgins · Nov 10, 2018

Thanks to all for the other suggestions and adh2000, I have passed along your offer to the powers-that-be. We're watching with interest, so please keep the discussion going.

W_Higgins · Nov 10, 2018

digger doug said:
Why isn't it in Deetroit ?.....

That's a good question and while I was not involved in any of that, I believe some of the reasons are that the club already had a presence in the state, the city of Richmond made it attractive to do so, and it is more centrally located to the membership. Maybe someone with more knowledge will chime in.

Jeff_G · Nov 10, 2018

I have a Van Norman 1/2, and the museum where I volunteer (Tuckahoe Steam & Gas Assoc. - Tuckahoe Steam & Gas Association - Home) has an early Van Norman #2, which may be the same model as the one pictured. Several other museum volunteers have Van Normans, and are quite loyal to them.

One caution. My mill and many (all?) of the other early Van Norman models use Van Norman "C" collets, also known as Hardinge "5V". I don't know if anyone still makes these. About 10 years ago the 1/8" and multiples of 1/8 were $60 each from Hardinge. I don't know of any other source, but they do come up on Ebay now and then. Our #2 has an original spindle adapter to go from B&S 9 (IIRC) to VN C.

That said, scarcity of tooling is not unique to Van Normans.

Good luck with your search.

W_Higgins · Nov 10, 2018

adh2000 said:
Can be vertical or horizontal, duplex maybe they call it. $600.

adh2000, please provide me with overall width and depth dimensions of your machine as we're trying to fit something into a tight spot.

W_Higgins · Nov 10, 2018

Jeff_G said:
I have a Van Norman 1/2, and the museum where I volunteer (Tuckahoe Steam & Gas Assoc. - Tuckahoe Steam & Gas Association - Home) has an early Van Norman #2, which may be the same model as the one pictured. Several other museum volunteers have Van Normans, and are quite loyal to them.

One caution. My mill and many (all?) of the other early Van Norman models use Van Norman "C" collets, also known as Hardinge "5V". I don't know if anyone still makes these. About 10 years ago the 1/8" and multiples of 1/8 were $60 each from Hardinge. I don't know of any other source, but they do come up on Ebay now and then. Our #2 has an original spindle adapter to go from B&S 9 (IIRC) to VN C.

That said, scarcity of tooling is not unique to Van Normans.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks for the input, Jeff. Would you mind measuring your 1/2 so we have a better sense of scale? That looks to be about the ideal size for the spot we have to fill.

enginebill · Nov 11, 2018

Here is a picture of my Garvin. It weighs about 1800 pounds and the table is 7.5" x 37".

W_Higgins · Nov 11, 2018

enginebill said:
Here is a picture of my Garvin. It weighs about 1800 pounds and the table is 7.5" x 37".

Very nice, I like your Garvin! Would it happen to be available? If not, please keep us in mind if you run across something similar. I think dimensionally that's about spot-on.

Jeff_G · Nov 11, 2018

The Van Norman 1/2 is 36" wide by 44" deep. Some pictures and more info:
Van Norman Duplex Milling Machine - Jeff's Old Iron Workshop

Just to avoid any confusion, mine is not for sale. The model 6 is a similar machine, slightly larger, also rare. But might fit if you happen to find one.

MTFCA Museum seeking line shaft driven Vertical Mill.

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