My BF Barnes Lathe... and a few questions

Hello

New member here. I would like to contribute by introducing my newly acquired BF Barnes lathe. I suspect this is a lathe was possibly made right after Benjamin separated from WF Barnes and stuck out on his own. The change gear plate clearly indicates BFB in Rockford. The right side legs are cast with “B. F. Barnes Co. Rockford, ILL.” Any additional info is certainly welcome.

This BFB lathe sat idle in our families hardware store since the 40’s. The store was in a small central Illinois town which was far from wealthy. Heck, the hardware store sold heating coal up till the late 60’s! Money was always scarce so my grandfather bartered a lot. He ending up with this Barnes in addition some other interesting machinery including a larger South Bend lathe of similar vintage. No family members ever recall using them.

I am not terribly familiar with the screw feed lathes. The only lathe I use (semi-frequently) is a Derbyshire WW lathe which can fit into a bread box. I would like to get this BFB lathe back into running condition. The concept of a screw feed carriage intrigues me. No plans for heavy use, just tinkering. The lathe is definitely well used, some gouges in the ways. Grease fittings on the spindle bearing caps so the spindle and bearing are a bit scored. Some of the gears have broken teeth which have been brazed and re-profiled. I think the lathe was last painted using a mop and a combination of soot and linseed oil. Lots of character. Can’t get the feed clutch to work so that will have to come apart. Also some problems with the bull gear pin - I see no way to pull it out to disengage. But these are most likely simple as I see nothing mechanically complicated on this machine (nice!).

So todays questions:

Did BFB Co. use model numbers? If so any idea of the model of this example?

Change Gears. There are 11 change gears with two duplicates. The change gears are 14DP (!), 7/16” thick with 1/8” keyed 9/16” dia bore. I suspect they share dimensions with some of the WF Barnes lathes, What models? (So I can start looking)

Spindle thread size the outside diameter of the spindle thread measures 1.09” and the tpi is definitely 8. So, do I look for a 1x8 chuck, faceplate, etc…? I sure hope it is not an odd thread profile, any history on what any of the Barnes used in regards to spindle threads.

Motor size. There is a period appropriate Wagner Electric 1/3 hp motor. The wires are cloth and have not aged well. Since I will be sourcing a new motor should I replace with 1/3 hp or, given nameplate rating optimism of today, should I consider ½ hp?

Barnes No. 5 gears sound a bit like yours. Of the Barnes lathes, the No. 5 was the only one with DP14 (4-1/2 being DP16 and the 6 variants being DP12 IIRC.)

From a post by Timekiller http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-and-history/barnes-5-lathe-info-153143/

I just checked, my #4-1/2 has .594 bore and flat belt driven #5 Barnes change gears have .688" bore. I know the #5 round belt driven lathes use a different smaller bore change gears, as I recall .484" dia. bore.

#4-½ 16 DP 14.5º PA. 375 width
#5 Flat Belt 14 DP 14.5º PA
#5-½ & #13 10 DP 14.5º PA

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All these gears are .375 width.

Most lathe spindle noses of this period are NOT standard, although they may have connection to modern taps. More than likely a US standard 60 degree thread. A good place to start might be with a 1-8 Tap (UNC) but given your measurement, it is likely a larger basic diameter so you'll be forced into "fitting" your tooling.

Most chucks and some faceplates mount with a "backing plate" attached to the tooling by bolts and made so that the backing plate OD is "concentric" when the backing plate is fully mounted - and matches a recess on the back of said faceplate or chuck. In addition, there is always a portion behind the threaded portion of the lathe spindle larger than the threads called the "register" which is the reference diameter over which the backing plate is made a close fit. As you turn on the backing plate, a recess in the backing plate fits over the register and forces concentricity: the threads are sort of secondary to maintenance of position and are there simply to hold the backing plate to the spindle/register.

Keep in mind in making your backing plates to ALWAYS work from the spindle outwards. Do your threads first - then work on the register to get fit - then face off the backing plate when in final position on the spindle (mark final position on the spindle and backing plate with a punch or scriber so you can repeatedly tighten to the same torque) THEN (and last) turn the OD of the backing plate to fit the recess on the back of the chuck/faceplate. It should be a tight, but not force fit. A little taper on this last OD might help it to "center."

Most people who attempt to "fit" a chuck encounter all of this. Its easiest to have another lathe to work on a backing plate and have the lathe spindle you're attempting to fit loose in your hand to check progress as you take swipes with a boring/threading tool - but it is possible to use an already existing backing plate, faceplate or even chuck to do this work in the lathe being fitted,and take a cut and simply turn the backing plate, faceplate, chuck "over" (end for end) to check for fit. On large lathes/chucks this can be quite a strenuous exercise. Certainly repetitive no matter the size.

Joe in NH

Looks like it was probably foot powered originally. Neat piece. I can't recall having seen a B. F. Barnes lathe before. Machines by W. F. & John are much more common.

Andy

Likely 1-3/32"-8 spindle thread. I seem to recall some odd size spindle threads on the BF Barnes lathes.

Yes was originally treadle powered.

Ray

those casters are going to let you down and destroy that lathe. That is an tragedy waiting to happen. That lathe is over a hundred years old and to break it by putting casters on it would be a shame.

kpotter said:

those casters are going to let you down and destroy that lathe. That is an tragedy waiting to happen. That lathe is over a hundred years old and to break it by putting casters on it would be a shame.

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At the least a frame that ties and bolts the legs together dolly style - although that still has the risk of tipping over somewhat.

At least you won't have the heartbreak of wheeling the lathe across a cement floor and finding an unseen pebble with but one of the casters, and then watching the whole thing go crashing to the floor in a heap.

Joe in NH

Thanks for all the information. Casters are just to aid in the refurbishment work. Actually quite stable, the lathe is not that heavy. My garage is not heated and this last weekend it was 4F. My tiny repurposed bathroom space heater only heats the area immediatley surrounding it so I have to station myself right there. With the casters I can sit/stand in one place and simply spin the lathe around to do the reassembling work. Really beginning to hate square head bolts. Yep, probably not so level now so when the work is done they will go.

Andy