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Mystery lathe

stevewatr

Stainless
Joined
Aug 9, 2013
Location
Worcester County, Massachusetts
Curious if anyone knows the manufacturer of this. It has a Cullman wheel power unit on it. Bed is marked "AMERICAN" . One other photo in the ad shows "23-94-54" on the side of bed below the headstock area.

Appears to have no power feed at all.

I'm not affiliated with the owner, just showed up on marketplace.

Steve.
92d53f037e5e2e31fd5ddb228c8ebedb.jpg


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From the "reverse" cone pulley and lack of back-gear AND the presence of a saddle/cross slide I would conclude it is a "Patternmaker's lathe" - which is a precise variant of regular woodworker's lathe.

Possibly American Wood-Working Machinery Co. of various places. Written up in a fair amount of detail (and examples) at American Wood Working Machinery Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org

Pricing a little steep considering it is outdoors - and obviously been there a while. Not "plug & play" by any means. They may be open to offers - most who sell "start high" not knowing exactly the local pricing and fear they will be taken advantage of.

Perhaps value about half of the ask? And that on a good day and if they can help load without breaking it.

Joe in NH
 
Better pictures.

Rob
 

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From the "reverse" cone pulley and lack of back-gear AND the presence of a saddle/cross slide I would conclude it is a "Patternmaker's lathe" - which is a precise variant of regular woodworker's lathe.

Possibly American Wood-Working Machinery Co. of various places. Written up in a fair amount of detail (and examples) at American Wood Working Machinery Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org

Pricing a little steep considering it is outdoors - and obviously been there a while. Not "plug & play" by any means. They may be open to offers - most who sell "start high" not knowing exactly the local pricing and fear they will be taken advantage of.

Perhaps value about half of the ask? And that on a good day and if they can help load without breaking it.

Joe in NH
I'll check out the link. I looked on lathes uk and couldn't find anything close. I was wondering why had no power feed for the carriage. The seller said he thought it was made in the 1950s so I reached out to him to explain it was most likely turn of the century.

Steve.

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I'll check out the link. I looked on lathes uk and couldn't find anything close. I was wondering why had no power feed for the carriage. The seller said he thought it was made in the 1950s so I reached out to him to explain it was most likely turn of the century.

Steve.

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Well, I wouldn't necessarily "sell this up." Seller might get an idea he has something "special" in this lathe - and remain steady or even escalate his price.

Its only special in what you think of it - and its not the only lathe of this ilk in the world. A recent Fay & Scott patternmaker's lathe down Maine (Maine is ALWAYS "down" from the other five New England states - comes from being "downwind" to the coastal schooners) ASK was $400 - and this one was "plug & play" and inside. I expect it sold for that but it might have been less. So don't do yourself a disservice and cut yourself off from negotiation.

Generally when I inquire to something on Craigslist, I ask if I can come to look at (set a price.) Usually this price is a bit less than the ask. But not a lot less. And I always commit only to "come and look" at the agreed price. If he doesn't want you he won't agree. This also leaves you room to back out (gee its not what I expected) to negotiate even lower (gee I don't like this can you cut me a further break) or even to go UP if the seller claims "Others are looking at this you better buy NOW." (You're not the only one playing the game.)

Pricing on this SHOULD be almost into the "Seller is looking for a good home and someone who will USE it." Meaning "very reasonable." Being flat belt means he can't sell this to an OSHA shop without EXTENSIVE shielding of the belt drive, if not work shield for the cutting area (think CNC in today's machining world.) So his market is primarily single user "hobbyists." The lone wood turner. Not many of those out there, really.

More than likely he has NO other interest than you. And if he does and seems hard on the price - keep looking.

Oh, the strength of a patternmaker's lathe is in cutting CONSISTENT diameter over the length of the bed/cut. No power feed needed for machining wood (you simply crank the hand crank slowly) but you can set a diameter on the cross slide and the whole cylinder you turn is as consistent in diameter as any offset of the tailstock allows, if any.

A lot harder to do consistent by "hand knifing" a cut in traditional wood turning.

Great for turning the majority of baseball bats.

Joe in NH
 
Well, I wouldn't necessarily "sell this up." Seller might get an idea he has something "special" in this lathe - and remain steady or even escalate his price.

Its only special in what you think of it - and its not the only lathe of this ilk in the world. A recent Fay & Scott patternmaker's lathe down Maine (Maine is ALWAYS "down" from the other five New England states - comes from being "downwind" to the coastal schooners) ASK was $400 - and this one was "plug & play" and inside. I expect it sold for that but it might have been less. So don't do yourself a disservice and cut yourself off from negotiation.

Generally when I inquire to something on Craigslist, I ask if I can come to look at (set a price.) Usually this price is a bit less than the ask. But not a lot less. And I always commit only to "come and look" at the agreed price. If he doesn't want you he won't agree. This also leaves you room to back out (gee its not what I expected) to negotiate even lower (gee I don't like this can you cut me a further break) or even to go UP if the seller claims "Others are looking at this you better buy NOW." (You're not the only one playing the game.)

Pricing on this SHOULD be almost into the "Seller is looking for a good home and someone who will USE it." Meaning "very reasonable." Being flat belt means he can't sell this to an OSHA shop without EXTENSIVE shielding of the belt drive, if not work shield for the cutting area (think CNC in today's machining world.) So his market is primarily single user "hobbyists." The lone wood turner. Not many of those out there, really.

More than likely he has NO other interest than you. And if he does and seems hard on the price - keep looking.

Oh, the strength of a patternmaker's lathe is in cutting CONSISTENT diameter over the length of the bed/cut. No power feed needed for machining wood (you simply crank the hand crank slowly) but you can set a diameter on the cross slide and the whole cylinder you turn is as consistent in diameter as any offset of the tailstock allows, if any.

A lot harder to do consistent by "hand knifing" a cut in traditional wood turning.

Great for turning the majority of baseball bats.

Joe in NH
Hi Joe,
I have interested in acquiring yet another pre war lathe. I just stumbled upon it and thought it looked interesting. The seller mentioned scrapping it if no takers. My advice to him was to at least save the legs, they're worth more than scrap value to someone who wants to make a table.

Steve.

Sent from my SM-J737P using Tapatalk
 
Nice American Wood Working lathe. Might have swivel headstock, can't tell for certain from the photographs. Does have removable thrust bearing bracket on headstock, this is an older feature. Surely worth saving.
 
Well, I wouldn't necessarily "sell this up." Seller might get an idea he has something "special" in this lathe - and remain steady or even escalate his price.

Its only special in what you think of it - and its not the only lathe of this ilk in the world. A recent Fay & Scott patternmaker's lathe down Maine (Maine is ALWAYS "down" from the other five New England states - comes from being "downwind" to the coastal schooners) ASK was $400 - and this one was "plug & play" and inside. I expect it sold for that but it might have been less. So don't do yourself a disservice and cut yourself off from negotiation.

Generally when I inquire to something on Craigslist, I ask if I can come to look at (set a price.) Usually this price is a bit less than the ask. But not a lot less. And I always commit only to "come and look" at the agreed price. If he doesn't want you he won't agree. This also leaves you room to back out (gee its not what I expected) to negotiate even lower (gee I don't like this can you cut me a further break) or even to go UP if the seller claims "Others are looking at this you better buy NOW." (You're not the only one playing the game.)

Pricing on this SHOULD be almost into the "Seller is looking for a good home and someone who will USE it." Meaning "very reasonable." Being flat belt means he can't sell this to an OSHA shop without EXTENSIVE shielding of the belt drive, if not work shield for the cutting area (think CNC in today's machining world.) So his market is primarily single user "hobbyists." The lone wood turner. Not many of those out there, really.

More than likely he has NO other interest than you. And if he does and seems hard on the price - keep looking.

Oh, the strength of a patternmaker's lathe is in cutting CONSISTENT diameter over the length of the bed/cut. No power feed needed for machining wood (you simply crank the hand crank slowly) but you can set a diameter on the cross slide and the whole cylinder you turn is as consistent in diameter as any offset of the tailstock allows, if any.

A lot harder to do consistent by "hand knifing" a cut in traditional wood turning.
Great for turning the majority of baseball bats.

Joe in NH

hahaha, well, now I've got your MO!! next time you call, I'll know you are going to start by sounding reasonable, come over and chisel me down! :D

(I'm just kidding there, never delt with you, but I'm sure you would be entirely reasonable..)
 
hahaha, well, now I've got your MO!! next time you call, I'll know you are going to start by sounding reasonable, come over and chisel me down! :D

(I'm just kidding there, never delt with you, but I'm sure you would be entirely reasonable..)

Um. I have been known to do that - but I also have been known to "walk away."

A grand for this is too high. Heck $500 is still a bit high, but as others have said "could be made functional in a day."

Best would be "I'll let you have it for $100 because you're interested and its a shame what we do to old machines - and here I'll help you load with my bucket" Like the last lathe I brought home.

And like the 1874 Lathe & Morse Tool Co. lathe I let go to a buyer for exactly that, for exactly those reasons, and doing exactly that.

Its not always about the money.

But many don't have the same insight, generosity of spirit, or interest.

There are too many machines and too few custodians.

Joe in NH
 
I'll check out the link. I looked on lathes uk and couldn't find anything close. I was wondering why had no power feed for the carriage. The seller said he thought it was made in the 1950s so I reached out to him to explain it was most likely turn of the century.

Steve.

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More like 1850's.

Regards, Tyrone.
 
It <could> be made by the predecessor of what became American Tool Works. I have an 1890's auction notice of a machine manufacturing plant by that name; the descriptions of the inventory sounds like they could have made wood lathes- I wonder if the founders of ATW (post Davis, Egan, Lodge) bought the company for its name and/or other features.
 
Either way, the location looks to have enough powerline to run it.....:D

Seriously, many of these machine tool builders had their own foundries, and pattern shops.

I have seen "for internal use" machine tools (like wood lathes and such)
made by machine tool builders (even though they don't have them in the catalog)
Maybe they started selling them if a customer asked.

IIRC Rolls Royce has a few lathes out there.
 
Umm, it's not a 'mystery.' As I said above it's an American Wood Working Machinery pattern makers lathe, likely made after 1900 (the company was formed in 1898), and this machine kept some of the older features, which were still good. Here, if I can manage the work, is a snip from their 4th edition catalog, of 1904, I think, showing the machine:

AWWM Co. 1904 pattern-makers lathe.2002.JPG

The lathe here was titled 'Clement' as that was the name of one of the preceding firms that merged to make American.

Nice machine, I wish I had it.
 
The Cullman drive is a nice unit. Probably was added at a later date. But where is the step pulley? Not much good for another machine without the step pulley. I can see why it was removed but it could have been reversed on the shaft. I had a 1924 18” Boye & Emmes lathe that had one. I sold the lathe a few years ago. The drive has a double roller chain in oil on the inside. My father added it to this lathe. The cones were different diameters so you needed to make an adjustment if you switched belt positions.
 

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