What's new
What's new

Need help figuring out how to display these gauges

adammil1

Titanium
Joined
Mar 12, 2001
Location
New Haven, CT
It's a long shot here but I picked up these gauges at a flea market. I am in the process of cleaning and polishing them now but when done I want to mount them on a better board or something and make them look like they belong together. I have a collection of old gauges hanging in my livingroom and these will be a welcomed addition.

Anyone have some photos of these in prototypical settings for some inspiration? I would love to see photos of some of the Allis Charmers machinery they may have came from.
47d5d0ef7dcacc64d2bbb04e8f125c86.jpg


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
 
A search for "engine room gauge board" or similar will get you some ideas. Nice little collection and yeah finding out what they were from would be nice!
 
Make some lamps out of them. Sounds like they would fit in to your decor nicely.
 

Attachments

  • punk.jpg
    punk.jpg
    99.4 KB · Views: 116
  • punk2.jpg
    punk2.jpg
    81.8 KB · Views: 101
  • punk3.jpg
    punk3.jpg
    89.5 KB · Views: 95
  • punk8.jpg
    punk8.jpg
    74.5 KB · Views: 97
Adam:

Nice find on the gauges. The two larger gauges are labeled for "STEAM" and "INLET". What are the two smaller gauges labeled for? When I see the name Allis-Chalmers I immediately think of their farm tractors and construction machinery of years gone by, but they were also a player in power plant construction and equipment mfg. such as transformers. I recall a thread on this Forum within the last year mentioning how A-C was involved in a major lawsuit regarding a power plant they had designed, constructed, and/or equipped that resulted in the ruin or near ruin of the firm. Anyway, so much for drifting off topic.

That gauge slightly in the picture in the lower right corner looks like an Ashcroft steam locomotive gauge, would be nice to find a locomotive to "display" it in!

Brian Smith
 
Ravenswood Generating Station - Wikipedia

"Big Allis." At the time it was built it was the largest Steam Turbine in the world.

Ravenswood Generating Station - Wikipedia

Ravenswood was originally built and owned by Consolidated Edison of New York Inc. (Con Edison) in 1963. The first two units constructed in 1963 were Ravenswood 10 and 20, each having a generating capacity of approximately 385 megawatts. Then, in 1965, Ravenswood 30 (commonly called "Big Allis") was commissioned with a generating capacity of nearly 981 megawatts.

Today Big Allis is still large, but not the largest. Many nuclear units eclipse Big Allis in size by half again.

This a case of a plant is built, was ground-breaking and technically significant at the time, but economics change and the plant has to be "adapted" to the new economics. Topping and Co-Generation are two ways to do this.

Allis-Chalmers has a long and distinguished history in steam.

allis_custom-31790989ce7c9f64654182acfe23de910b668647.jpg


Joe in NH
 
Gauges like that ought to be reading pressure!

Your display could have a discreet hand pump so that you can have them reading up the scale somewhere. It would be ideal if they would "pulse" a little as they would in use, but that's probably asking too much...............
 
Adam:

Nice find on the gauges. The two larger gauges are labeled for "STEAM" and "INLET". What are the two smaller gauges labeled for? When I see the name Allis-Chalmers I immediately think of their farm tractors and construction machinery of years gone by, but they were also a player in power plant construction and equipment mfg. such as transformers. I recall a thread on this Forum within the last year mentioning how A-C was involved in a major lawsuit regarding a power plant they had designed, constructed, and/or equipped that resulted in the ruin or near ruin of the firm. Anyway, so much for drifting off topic.

That gauge slightly in the picture in the lower right corner looks like an Ashcroft steam locomotive gauge, would be nice to find a locomotive to "display" it in!

Brian Smith

Brian the other 2 are relay oil and bearing oil. I would say that these are definitely not locomotive gauges as they are all a matching set from the same engine and I have never heard of an Allis Chalmers steam locomotive! I am also wondering why the 2 larger gauges (Steam and Inlet) read vacuum on them. I have never seen the need to read vacuum on the inlet of a reciprocating steam engine before. Could these have been off a turbine and maybe as it spins down after cutting off the throttle the system starts to pull a vacuum thru the condenser which one could read? Does it seem plausible?

i would think the need to read vacuum of a stationary reciprocating engine wouldn't exist? I suppose if it is coasting down maybe it pulls one but do you care to read it?. Anyone who knows steam a little better than I care to venture a guess? On locomotives or any reciprocating steam tied directly into a smoke box it is typically common to put in snifting valves to break a vacuum so as not to pull cinders directly into your cylinders, however I don't really know what the practice in say a natural draft stationary plant where there may not be a chance for a steam engine to pull cinders from anywhere into the cylinders.

Here's a photo after some cleanup. I still haven't figured out mounting yet. I did come across a nice piece of oak which may fit the bill.
20211012_204547[1].jpg

Gauges like that ought to be reading pressure!

Your display could have a discreet hand pump so that you can have them reading up the scale somewhere. It would be ideal if they would "pulse" a little as they would in use, but that's probably asking too much...............

I have thought about that. Here's the spot on the wall where I hang most of my gauges (sorry to make you turn your head sideways). While it is probably due for some reorganization one of these days they all sit right above a baseboard heater. Those things float on municipal water supply pressure year round and I have long thought it would be fun to plumb up a few of my gauges to be able to read my water pressure. Heck with my Bristol Recorder I may even be able to plot it through out the day!
20211012_221813[1].jpg
 
Adam:

The gauge I am referring to is only partially shown in your original photo and is not one of the four A-C gauges. As it appears in this thread, it's in the lower right hand corner, but the pic is oriented sideways, so upper right hand corner would be more accurate. It strongly resembles a 400 psi Ashcroft steam locomotive gauge that I have a long acquaintance with.

You are correct about the locomotive snifter valves, and they probably have no application on stationary engines, but I can imagine it would be desirable to measure cylinder vacuum when the throttle is closed. Maybe one of the brethren such as Joe in NH or Joe Michaels can elaborate.

Steam On!
Brian Smith
 
It's interesting that they read Vacuum on the steam gages. If you run a steam engine, then stop and the steam cools off in the cylinder, it'd cause a vacuum, but steam engines usually have a check valve sorta thing that lets the cylinder vent to atmosphere when there isn't pressure holding the valve shut.

Maybe the vac readings are for troubleshooting?

Anyway, cool set of gages! You COULD mount them on a nice wood base and plumb them up to a model steam engine.

Wilesco steam engine | tradition and innovation made in germany I have a couple of model steam engines from Wilesco and they're pretty fun to play with. I've seen people build whole to-scale workshops powered by them. Tiny table saws, grinders, etc.

Since the gages are from Allis Chalmers, they could've come off a traction engine - an early tractor - or maybe a stationary engine. No telling. Maybe from a sawmill or a farm.
 
Adam:

The gauge I am referring to is only partially shown in your original photo and is not one of the four A-C gauges. As it appears in this thread, it's in the lower right hand corner, but the pic is oriented sideways, so upper right hand corner would be more accurate. It strongly resembles a 400 psi Ashcroft steam locomotive gauge that I have a long acquaintance with.

You spotted that one, here's some photos of that and another related one. Story to follow soon as I will need to type on the computer.
9d1f014b0b9555b7d40f08be0811faaa.jpg
a63cfd382b3378b9c820c813c77c0ba8.jpg


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
 
You spotted that one, here's some photos of that and another related one. Story to follow soon as I will need to type on the computer.
9d1f014b0b9555b7d40f08be0811faaa.jpg
a63cfd382b3378b9c820c813c77c0ba8.jpg


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
I'll be honest... After seeing this gages (gauges?) and thinking about how you could display them, I might have to start collecting old gages!

I have the cast bronze name plate, whistles, and gauges from a massive stream engine that ran a friends saw mill when they started out in the late 1800's or early 1900's. I've been thinking about building him a big display for it for years. Think I'm gonna do it next weekend.
 
So the two gauges I put photos above are rather special to me not just because my whole life I have always loved trains but for the good friend that I got them from.

I found them in a pile of stuff that a good friend of mine and legend in the local steam community here in Connecticut Bob Carlson left behind. I am not sure if anyone on this site is familiar with Bob but he was a great guy and the last guy I know who worked on steam locomotives when they were in operation. Apparently I think the CPRR was still running steam in Maine right up until about 1960 and Bob went up there and fired on the railroad until steam was on its way out. If there was a steam locomotive in the Northeast United States chances are you would see Bob around it and many of them he worked on. Bob had so many stories about the last days of steam. If anyone has read the book Farewell to Steam apparently there was a publication back in the day (I forget which one) that tracked all the fading steam in this country. Bob was reading that at the same time as Robert Ziel and a lot of those places that Ziel went Bob went too. Now if only I had Joe Michals memory and could write down all his stories for every one to enjoy but that is another story.

Bob was a really talented boilermaker. For years after steam went out he was running a company that supplied replacement staybolts and boiler parts.Thru out the 1960's I think he was the importer/distributor of the Locomotive Superheater Company(ELESCO) of England (Note after steam left in the USA the Locomotive Superheater company in the UK was still making parts and supporting steam over there for another 10-15yrs and Bob was importing the parts to keep steam alive for all the museums here in the USA. If you want to read further on Bob. A lot of great stuff was written about Bob over here Railway Preservation News • View topic - Robert (Bob) Carlson, RIP.

Bob and I became really great friends several years ago. Bob was getting up there in age and there weren't many steam locomotive projects going on to keep him busy so I invited him to come over to give me a hand building my live steam locomotive boiler. As a retired welder out of Electric Boat of 30years Bob was the perfect guy to teach me how to weld on a boiler. He would come over ever Saturday and Sunday and we would spend the entire day working together out there in the shop. It was great cheap welding lessons, all I had to do was pay for lunch and dinners and Bob was happy as could be. . I learned a lot from him and had the greatest of time during those years he helped me get my live steam locomotive up and running.

When Bob passed I was able to get these gauges from his estate. For a while half of Bob was sitting in the tender of the locomotive we built together (The other half of him was laid to rest with his parents) but this past June we took Bob out for one last ride on his beloved 113 steam locomotive which he and a few other guys restored out on little more than a siding in the midst of anthracite country PA. Bob had no kids, I think that locomotive was the closest thing he had to a child of his own. So I was really satisfied to arrange for him to make one last trip thru a boiler he had spent so many years restoring, It was a fitting end for a great friend.

As to the gauges, One of them still needs to go up on the wall. The picture is no good but it is 0-600psig dual gauge. It says "Red Hand-Train Line, White Hand-Reducing Line". What is odd is 600psig sounds really high for a locomotive! I thought the Baldwin 60000 at the Franklin Institute was one of the highest steam pressure locomotives at 350psig. Add some margin for hydro and maybe it would make sense to use a 600 not a 400psig gauge but 600 still seems really high for a locomotive. I know when the Diesels started coming in they started putting steam generators onto trains I wonder what pressures those went up to? Anyone have any thoughts on this one?

The second gauge is a little more self explanatory it is an Exhaust Steam Injector gauge from ELESCO. It wouldn't surprise me if it came from his days representing them back when importing from England.Then again Bob was all over. I recall him telling me a story steam was on its way out up in Canada and he and a bunch of his friends were working on a Heisler at a trolley museum here in Connecticut. I think they needed a steam generator or maybe it was a lubricator. Bob wrote to the sales department at the railroad and they bought the rights to salvage one off the scrap lines of locomotives. He gets up to Canada in the middle of the winter and it is freezing and the shop foreman sees the note and tells him there is no way they are going out there to get one. Walks him into the big store room and takes a freshly overhauled unit off the shelf.Tells him to take it as the RR will be scraping out the store rooms soon enough. The unit proves too big to fit in Bob's car so no problem he writes up a ticket and has the thing sent rail freight to a station near Bob's house. Bob said he regretted not buying every bell whistle and everything in the place for most of his life.

Anyhow so that was a story of some of the gauges there.Anyone else collect stuff that remind them of great friends gone by?
 
Here's another one more story to come. Wish I could take better photos with phone as it doesn't do them justice.
76869eb0f5fc2f4342364cd1f90ee408.jpg


Sent from my SM-J737V using Tapatalk
 
So the two gauges I put photos above are rather special to me not just because my whole life I have always loved trains but for the good friend that I got them from.

I found them in a pile of stuff that a good friend of mine and legend in the local steam community here in Connecticut Bob Carlson left behind. I am not sure if anyone on this site is familiar with Bob but he was a great guy and the last guy I know who worked on steam locomotives when they were in operation. Apparently I think the CPRR was still running steam in Maine right up until about 1960 and Bob went up there and fired on the railroad until steam was on its way out. If there was a steam locomotive in the Northeast United States chances are you would see Bob around it and many of them he worked on. Bob had so many stories about the last days of steam. If anyone has read the book Farewell to Steam apparently there was a publication back in the day (I forget which one) that tracked all the fading steam in this country. Bob was reading that at the same time as Robert Ziel and a lot of those places that Ziel went Bob went too. Now if only I had Joe Michals memory and could write down all his stories for every one to enjoy but that is another story.

Bob was a really talented boilermaker. For years after steam went out he was running a company that supplied replacement staybolts and boiler parts.Thru out the 1960's I think he was the importer/distributor of the Locomotive Superheater Company(ELESCO) of England (Note after steam left in the USA the Locomotive Superheater company in the UK was still making parts and supporting steam over there for another 10-15yrs and Bob was importing the parts to keep steam alive for all the museums here in the USA. If you want to read further on Bob. A lot of great stuff was written about Bob over here Railway Preservation News • View topic - Robert (Bob) Carlson, RIP.

Bob and I became really great friends several years ago. Bob was getting up there in age and there weren't many steam locomotive projects going on to keep him busy so I invited him to come over to give me a hand building my live steam locomotive boiler. As a retired welder out of Electric Boat of 30years Bob was the perfect guy to teach me how to weld on a boiler. He would come over ever Saturday and Sunday and we would spend the entire day working together out there in the shop. It was great cheap welding lessons, all I had to do was pay for lunch and dinners and Bob was happy as could be. . I learned a lot from him and had the greatest of time during those years he helped me get my live steam locomotive up and running.

When Bob passed I was able to get these gauges from his estate. For a while half of Bob was sitting in the tender of the locomotive we built together (The other half of him was laid to rest with his parents) but this past June we took Bob out for one last ride on his beloved 113 steam locomotive which he and a few other guys restored out on little more than a siding in the midst of anthracite country PA. Bob had no kids, I think that locomotive was the closest thing he had to a child of his own. So I was really satisfied to arrange for him to make one last trip thru a boiler he had spent so many years restoring, It was a fitting end for a great friend.

As to the gauges, One of them still needs to go up on the wall. The picture is no good but it is 0-600psig dual gauge. It says "Red Hand-Train Line, White Hand-Reducing Line". What is odd is 600psig sounds really high for a locomotive! I thought the Baldwin 60000 at the Franklin Institute was one of the highest steam pressure locomotives at 350psig. Add some margin for hydro and maybe it would make sense to use a 600 not a 400psig gauge but 600 still seems really high for a locomotive. I know when the Diesels started coming in they started putting steam generators onto trains I wonder what pressures those went up to? Anyone have any thoughts on this one?

The second gauge is a little more self explanatory it is an Exhaust Steam Injector gauge from ELESCO. It wouldn't surprise me if it came from his days representing them back when importing from England.Then again Bob was all over. I recall him telling me a story steam was on its way out up in Canada and he and a bunch of his friends were working on a Heisler at a trolley museum here in Connecticut. I think they needed a steam generator or maybe it was a lubricator. Bob wrote to the sales department at the railroad and they bought the rights to salvage one off the scrap lines of locomotives. He gets up to Canada in the middle of the winter and it is freezing and the shop foreman sees the note and tells him there is no way they are going out there to get one. Walks him into the big store room and takes a freshly overhauled unit off the shelf.Tells him to take it as the RR will be scraping out the store rooms soon enough. The unit proves too big to fit in Bob's car so no problem he writes up a ticket and has the thing sent rail freight to a station near Bob's house. Bob said he regretted not buying every bell whistle and everything in the place for most of his life.

Anyhow so that was a story of some of the gauges there.Anyone else collect stuff that remind them of great friends gone by?
That's a really nice write-up on your friend. Sounds like he was a really interesting guy.

Sent from my Western Electric Model 520 Explosion-Proof Telephone using Talkatap
 
The big gauge and whistles from my friends sawmill are about an hours drive away in a barn. Next time I go out there I'll try to remember to post some pictures on here. I have the name plate from the engine in a shed at the house. I started cleaning it up but still need to finish cleaning, painting, and polishing.

Sent from my Western Electric Model 520 Explosion-Proof Telephone using Talkatap
 
I'll be honest... After seeing this gages (gauges?) and thinking about how you could display them, I might have to start collecting old gages!

I have the cast bronze name plate, whistles, and gauges from a massive stream engine that ran a friends saw mill when they started out in the late 1800's or early 1900's. I've been thinking about building him a big display for it for years. Think I'm gonna do it next weekend.

Post photos when done and if somehow the wife decides that it doesn't belong on your wall let me know and I will provide a good home for it and some funds in exchange!

The steam gauges and nameplates are something special, almost an artwork of an era gone by. I posted another photo of a gauge I have from the Hodge Boiler Works which is probably the gauge that got me started. When my parents married and moved to another state they had set of friends who became adopted parents to them. The husband was a mechanical engineer who designed HVAC systems. As a kid I always used to love roaming into his office with the huge drafting tables and blue prints everywhere. On the wall was a collection of gauges that I always admired. When he passed the family gave me a few of them and his son took one or two others.

None the less I always think of how impressive that gauge looks but I think it was reflects on the era it was made in. The family friend I got if from must have picked it up on a project that was being scrapped out and upgraded sometime in the 1960's-1970's, I suspect that it dates pre 1920's and if you think about it to most of the people who were living in those buildings around the turn of the century steam heat must have been something to be proud of. For millenniums if you wanted heat you needed to burn a fire as close as possible. Go into a colonial era home where there were fireplaces everywhere. Everything stank of smoke. Now imagine how proud and excited people must have been to turn a knob on their radiator and have heat. For a while there steam and the machinery it ran was something to be celebrated. Now sadly most machinery is just something we come to take for grated. I wonder what year the gauge makers stopped making the elegant gauges of yesteryear?

Anyone else here collect gauges or machinery namplates?
 
Adam ,
I don't know a lot about them but the Vacuum gauges were likely used in conjunction with an engine using a condenser.
Surface condenser - Wikipedia
I remember a late friend had a steam launch that used a keel condenser with a vacuum pump to recover the condensate.
Some discussion about one here.
building a steam condenser - The Steamboating Forum
No doubt recovery of the water from exhaust steam is more critical when at sea where you can't resupply a boiler with salt water or in other applications where suitable water to resupply the boiler is in short supply.
Maybe someone else can add something more .
Jim
 
I'll make a longer winded reply tomorrow...

When I get the display made, I'm going to give it to the man that owns the sawmill. The mill closed a while ago, but he worked at it when he was younger and he's the 3rd generation owner. It has a whole lot of value to me, but I imagine it'd will mean w whole lot more to him. Especially considering the ties to his grandfather and dad.

Last time I went down to the mill, I found his grandfather's office chair in the attic. Put up there because it wall all broken up. I took it (without asking, of course) and started restoring it. Lots of cast iron repairs, wood working, leather work, etc. I just need to finish replacing the leather, make some leather trim, and replace some of the old slotted head wood screws... plus the old casters have flat spots, so I'm gonna replace those. It's a "bankers chair" so it reclines. I think the pivot pin (IIRC) had over 1/16" of wear between the pin and the holes. Amazing the difference once I fixed that.

Sent from my Western Electric Model 520 Explosion-Proof Telephone using Tapatalk
 








 
Back
Top