Odd (and perhaps troubling?) wear pattern on lathe bed

marka12161 · Jul 14, 2019

As i mentioned in my "Request for manual" post, i picked up a Monarch 16 CY last week. The seller was great. Loaded it carefully, let me crawl all over the machine, open the headstock, gave me a shop tour etc. However, when i went to pick the machine up, i was so jacked up over how big it seemed and whether or not i would die on the way home, i failed to notice the odd wear pattern on the ways (i thought it was just dirt). When i got it home and took some time to clean the ways, i noticed what feels like pitting on the very top (point) of the V way. It is more pronounced on the apron side than on the back side. I'm guessing that this is wear from years of grit building up in the way wipers and i'm hoping that the rest of the way surface area will provide the bearing surface necessary. After all, this thing is 78 years old so some warts are to be expected. Has anyone seen this pattern before and if so, please comment on cause, significance, remedy etc. Also, what's the procedure for assessing the significance of this?

Other than this, the machine is really nice. Came with a taper attachment, steady rest, follow rest and one of those three jaw combination (independent & scroll) chucks. Assuming the wear in the ways is not a fatal flaw, i'll probably upgrade the chuck to an independent four jaw

enginebill · Jul 14, 2019

It looks more like rust pitting but it would be nothing I would worry about.

thermite · Jul 14, 2019

marka12161 said:
As i mentioned in my "Request for manual" post, i picked up a Monarch 16 CY last week. The seller was great. Loaded it carefully, let me crawl all over the machine, open the headstock, gave me a shop tour etc. However, when i went to pick the machine up, i was so jacked up over how big it seemed and whether or not i would die on the way home, i failed to notice the odd wear pattern on the ways (i thought it was just dirt). When i got it home and took some time to clean the ways, i noticed what feels like pitting on the very top (point) of the V way. It is more pronounced on the apron side than on the back side. I'm guessing that this is wear from years of grit building up in the way wipers and i'm hoping that the rest of the way surface area will provide the bearing surface necessary. After all, this thing is 78 years old so some warts are to be expected. Has anyone seen this pattern before and if so, please comment on cause, significance, remedy etc. Also, what's the procedure for assessing the significance of this?

Other than this, the machine is really nice. Came with a taper attachment, steady rest, follow rest and one of those three jaw combination (independent & scroll) chucks. Assuming the wear in the ways is not a fatal flaw, i'll probably upgrade the chuck to an independent four jaw

Corrosion, not friction-wear. The pitting you show won't affect accuracy. All it does is make it harder to keep the ways clean of sharp or abrasive debris collection and transfer under the wipers to where it CAN accelerate friction wear.

As to wear patterns? "We" have seen them all. As-expected to downright weird.

Lathes of this era often found themselves turning "many" of one or few of the same part, same area of carriage traverse, for as much as three shifts by six days, and for several years at a go.

Or not.

My 1944 10EE has far worse wear then my '42. But.. the '44 is is dead-even as to wear distribuion, full length. The '42 the bed wear is all concentrated in the middle one-third of travel - not even close-up to the chuck/collet.

Even with that wear uncorrected, either one can still make damned good parts, and without as much operator-compensation / work-around as one might think.

Mainly, that's because the carriage is so long as to spread the grief, and so heavy as to resist rocking.

That's a Monarch feature, not a bug.

Clean it up and JF run it for a while for grins. You'll soon see.

PDW · Jul 16, 2019

The ways look in a lot better condition than my CY and mine works OK. Don't worry about it.

FWIW mine came out of a welding shop and after that I now have a rule - NEVER buy a precision machine tool that's been in a welding shop, because most likely it won't be one......

PDW

Froneck · Jul 17, 2019

If it were my lathe I'd lift the carriage off the ways. I had the same Monarch with similar wear though not as far down the Vee. Seems the top flat is also worn. I removed the carriage to find the top of the inverted Vee was full of a fine chip like cast iron. I cleaned it well and re-felted the way wipers. Had no problems afterwards nor did the wear pattern increase. Precision was good too.

marka12161 · Jul 17, 2019

Froneck said:
If it were my lathe I'd lift the carriage off the ways. I had the same Monarch with similar wear though not as far down the Vee. Seems the top flat is also worn. I removed the carriage to find the top of the inverted Vee was full of a fine chip like cast iron. I cleaned it well and re-felted the way wipers. Had no problems afterwards nor did the wear pattern increase. Precision was good too.

You are right about the flat way showing pitting as well. I do believe that as noted above, this is likely from corrosion. THis machine was bought by the previous owner's grandfather when new. At one point the original owner closed up shop. I can imagine the machine being in storage for some time. However, none of that means taking off the carriage and cleaning up whatever mess i'm sure to find as you suggest isn't a good idea.

Thanks for the input.

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