Oil Selection for Old Horizontal Mill
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    Default Oil Selection for Old Horizontal Mill

    I am in the process of doing a freshen up of my new-to-me horizontal mill (See Thread)

    The challenge of this whole thing, is I have no documentation for this mill.

    I would like to change the oil in the column gearbox and the knee (and the little Z axis reservior underneath).

    I was able to scrub up a manual for a much larger machine from Summit (3UH). They mention the following:

    When using the machine when the temperature is under 59F, please replace the oil SHELL-TURBO 68 (TELLUS 68) with SHELL-TURBO 46 (TELLUS 46)
    That is the only place I see the oil specification listed. My questions are these:

    1. This mill resides in a shop that is heated not to freeze. This means 45F in the winter and 90+F in the summer. Should I stick with the ISO 68? Does this even seem reasonable for this type of machine? (Remember, my manual is from a much larger machine).

    2. I keep seeing the DTE numbered vs DTE Light/Medium/Heavy conversations. Which is appropriate here? Know that there is a flow sightglass in the column which shows oil pump flow, but only a fill gauge in the knee (making me assume there is no pump). There is a "safety clutch" which resides in the knee. I am not sure how it works exactly, but know that clutches were one of the deciding factors between DTE numbered and DTE L/M/H.

    3. The machine has a horizontal head which is just gear driven, I assume I can use this same oil in the head? Same with the little Z axis reservoir where the screw rides underneath the knee?

    Thanks for any info/opinions.

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    We had an Italian Induma horizontal that looked similar vintage to yours (ended up in the scrap heap due to damage). It had some tags on it calling for 68 weight HD oil (Heavy/Medium) to be used in all the gearboxes around the machine including the vertical head. Mobile DTE 26 Heavy/Medium And Texaco Rando HD 68 was what we had on the shelf. We use the same oil on our Kearney Trecker 2H (similar caliber of machine).

    Our Cincinatti 2L is also similar size, but it gets 64 weight HD oil (with a couple specific areas having some exception)

    The only other lub our horizontals get is general purpose SAE 30 weight oil (non detergent) to oil stuff like handles, levers, and exposed metal surfaces. But the HD oil works fine for that too. The SAE stuff is just cheaper.

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    I keep seeing the DTE numbered vs DTE Light/Medium/Heavy conversations. Which is appropriate here?
    Depends

    If non hydraulic assist then for years K&T had DTE Heavy Medium in both column and knee

    If known to have hyd assist like later Cincinnati, then the DTE 24 type stuff (or whatever similar DTE number lines up with ISO 68)

    Hyd. assist does such things as help shift column gearing

    And if so equipped, good luck on functionality after 50 years

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    Thanks for the responses.

    M.B. Naegle: Holy Cow, thanks for the comment! I have been trying to figure out any information about this mill. You mentioned Induma and Italian and the light clicked. As you may know, Summit is simply a tool importer/rebadge company. They have NO information on this mill. All I know is it was built in italy and from 1968. I just googled Induma and you are right on! I found a couple very close counterparts already.


    Sounds like I may be close with the DTE 26. I just don't know if DTE 26 or DTE Heavy/Medium is the best option.

    johnoder: I have seen what you are talking about, but don't think this has anything that intricate. It seems to be a simple slide gear headstock and same with the knee. I do know that it does have a safety clutch. I believe this is for a feed crash, but don't know what the clutch is made out of, and if the EP additives of DTE 26 will be a detriment.

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    So in summation, ISO 68 is reasonable, and probably fine, even with the mill likely getting under 59F.

    So will DTE26 instead of Heavy/Medium be detrimental? The only reason I ask is A.) it seems to be cheaper and B.) I already use it for other machines meaning one less jug to keep around.

    Appreciate the info thus far.

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    Might depend on the individual oil manufactures cross reference. Mobile lists their oil as BOTH DTE 26 and Heavy/Medium. I think it's all hydraulic oil in that regard.

    You might also see R&O grades of oil, which to my understanding is similar but different as it is purely a "circulating" oil, where-as HD oil works in hydraulic pressure applications, and in mechanical circulation environments.

    Every oil mfg. and machine mfg. is going to have their own spin on things, but from my experience the main thing you need to know is the type of oil for your application (spindle, way, hydraulic, etc.), and the grade/viscosity of it.

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    So from your comment "Mobile lists their oil as BOTH DTE 26 and Heavy/Medium. I think it's all hydraulic oil in that regard." Can I assume that you mean the EP additives in the DTE 26 will likely not adversely affect the mill as opposed the "Heavy/Medium" version, that I believe do not include these additives?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundraw View Post
    So from your comment "Mobile lists their oil as BOTH DTE 26 and Heavy/Medium. I think it's all hydraulic oil in that regard." Can I assume that you mean the EP additives in the DTE 26 will likely not adversely affect the mill as opposed the "Heavy/Medium" version, that I believe do not include these additives?

    Thanks
    "Named" and "numbered" are not the same as to additives, even if the base stock might start out that way (or not).

    Discussion has raged for years. John Oder told it like it is.

    At least for machine-tools:

    - The "named" DTE are best for applications where fine particulates should be allowed to settle-out into some sort of sump, not be carried about. Read "most anything old", even with "basic" pumped circulation, not just splash.

    - The "numbered" DTE are best where there is a filter in a pumped system, read "most things more recent.", hydraulics included.

    Happens I buy mine from an aviation industry supplier, so machine-tools are not the only market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    At least for machine-tools:

    - The "named" DTE are best for applications where fine particulates should be allowed to settle-out into some sort of sump, not be carried about. Read "most anything old", even with "basic" pumped circulation, not just splash.

    - The "numbered" DTE are best where there is a filter in a pumped system, read "most things more recent.", hydraulics included.

    Happens I buy mine from an aviation industry supplier, so machine-tools are not the only market.
    ^^^ This ^^^

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    So I got on the phone today with Mobil Industrial Lubricants. He was kind enough to explain, in much detail, the difference between the two oils. I posted a writeup in a seperate thread: DTE Numbered and DTE Named Oils - The differences explained

    In short, for an old machine tool like mine, it makes no difference which oil you use. The advantages of one over another really only come into play with later model tools with sensitive clutches and more intricate hydraulic systems.

    I share this not to be unappreciative of the information provided. I just wanted to clear up confusion about these products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gundraw View Post
    So I got on the phone today with Mobil Industrial Lubricants. He was kind enough to explain, in much detail, the difference between the two oils. I posted a writeup in a seperate thread: DTE Numbered and DTE Named Oils - The differences explained

    In short, for an old machine tool like mine, it makes no difference which oil you use. The advantages of one over another really only come into play with later model tools with sensitive clutches and more intricate hydraulic systems.

    I share this not to be unappreciative of the information provided. I just wanted to clear up confusion about these products.
    Actually it's rolling-element bearings. Some among us have sets that cost about $3,000. Maker calls for DTE light? We utilize DTE light.

    It was wiser Mobil Techs who explained why it mattered. Perhaps they have retired, now?

    No fear. If they quit making it, we have cross-refs to others.


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