Old Garvin (?) Lathe Help

I could a little help with this old lathe a friend gave me a couple of years ago.
The tag on the front of the machine (pictured)shows "the Garvin Machine Co., Machinery and Tools, New York". This tag is not attached as they typically were with pins or drive screws in the four corners rather than the way that's shown, which makes me wonder if this is a Garvin or is that just the company that sold/serviced them.
It looks 1900-ish to me and any info about the actual age or manufacture, is appreciated.
Lathe has a 5'bed and a 12" swing (slightly under, @ about 11 3/4").
Ultimately, I would like to find a tail stock for it but I know that's probably a long shot. I'm hoping to put it into light use and preserve it because of the historic shop that it came out of when it closed around 1970. My friend salvaged it at that time and has had it ever since. If he hadn't saved it, it would have been left behind and more than likely sold for scrap.
Thanks in advance for any help.
CWC(4)

I think the tool slide is much like one that I have.
I saw an ad for it in an old magazine but it was not made by Garvin.
I think I saved a link to it but can't remember the makers name it was in an old tool catalogue .
I'll try and remember the name and where I saved the link and post it here if I find it.
Regards,
Jim
P.S. Found it Here
Fig. 794 Wilkinson Slide Rest.
A book of tools : being a catalogue of tools, supplies, machinery, ... - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
Other Lathes listed starting here
A book of tools : being a catalogue of tools, supplies, machinery, ... - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
I didn't take time to compare all to yours for a match.
Ill try and get some pictures of the parts of mine that is not in as nice shape as yours later.

Garvin was located in Manhattan, and their old catalogues showed a sizeable building occupying most of a city block. Garvin had their name on a wide range of machine tools including horizontal milling machines and screw-cutting lathes as well as on a slotter. The machine tools were sold by Garvin, and Garvin acted as the manufacturer. Garvin even sold dividing heads to go with their horizontal mills. There is some question as to whether Garvin actually manufactured the machine tools or had some other firms making them to their designs under contract to Garvin. You are correct in your thinking about the nameplate on your lathe. Usually, the manufacturer of a machine tool like a lathe would have their name cast into the side of the bed. The dealer or representative firm who sold the machine would be the ones to affix a nameplate to some handy part of the machine tool. Garvin, while acting as an OEM (original equipment manufacturer), was more of a seller of machine tools made "by others", hence the nameplate being screwed on.

On some really old machine tools from the 180's-90's, such as a Whitcomb-Blaisdell planer and a Fitchburg Machine Company lathe, the OEM nameplates were brass castings with some ornate script, fastened to the machine tools with machine screws. I know this because these machine tools were in a junkyard awaiting being smashed, and I was able to get the nameplates before the magnet on the crane got to them. This was in 1973 and I was a young engineer living in a small place and moving to wherever the work took me. No way could I save a planer and a large old engine lathe.

I've seen plenty of Garvin machine tools over the years. They were, in my opinion, a low-end supplier of machine tools, from what I've seen. Not up there with the likes of Rivett for precision lathes or with Flather or Hendey for cone-head engine lathes in that time period.

Joe Michaels said:

There is some question as to whether Garvin actually manufactured the machine tools or had some other firms making them to their designs under contract to Garvin.

Click to expand...

Garvin did not have other firms, under contract, making their machine tools.
They made their own line of machine tools. I have seen pictures inside their New York factory showing the machine tools being made.
These were from trade publications of the day such as American Machinist and Machinery magazines.
Their main lines were milling machines, cutter grinders, screw machines, gear cutters, production drills and hand lathes.
They also made the various accessories for the milling machines, such as vises, dividing heads, arbors and milling cutters.
They also made the accessories for their screw machines.

[/QUOTE]Usually, the manufacturer of a machine tool like a lathe would have their name cast into the side of the bed.[/QUOTE]

Some makers had their names cast in while others used cast bronze tags and others used brass tags.
Some even just stamped their name into a machined surface.
I have seen early makers and later makers use all of the above.

[/QUOTE] Garvin, while acting as an OEM (original equipment manufacturer), was more of a seller of machine tools made "by others", hence the nameplate being screwed on.[/QUOTE]

Not true as being more of a seller of machine tools made "by others".
As I stated, they had their own line that they made.
Garvin did sell machine tools made by other makers.
I have a 1904 Garvin catalog showing only the machine tools, of other makers, that they sold.
Most of the machines in the catalog show the original makes name.
Quite a few makers did this, such as Niles Tool Works.
As for the nameplate being screwed on, this was done by quite a few makers.

[/QUOTE]On some really old machine tools from the 180's-90's, such as a Whitcomb-Blaisdell planer and a Fitchburg Machine Company lathe, the OEM nameplates were brass castings with some ornate script.[/QUOTE]

That would be bronze castings.


[/QUOTE]I've seen plenty of Garvin machine tools over the years. They were, in my opinion, a low-end supplier of machine tools, from what I've seen. Not up there with the likes of Rivett for precision lathes or with Flather or Hendey for cone-head engine lathes in that time period.[/QUOTE]

I have quite a number of Garvin machine tools made by Garvin. They were not a low end supplier of machine tools.
Garvin made machine tools were very well made. They were a large competitor to Brown & Sharpe for milling machines and screw machines.
It is not fair to compare them to Rivett, Flather or Hendey for engine lathes, since Garvin never made engine lathes.
As to the machine tools they sold by other makers, this ran from small makers, such as Young lathes to large ones, such as Bickford Vertical Boring Mills and Beaman & Smith Horizontal Boring Mills.

Rob

Garvin was certainly a re-seller of some other brands. I own a seneca falls lathe that sports their badge:

Thank you for the responses, I appreciate your time and input.
CWC(4)

Does the spindle threading have square cross section threads?

The bed style (two v-ways) is very similar to the sloan and chace lathes I've seen.
But I have never seen a sloan and chace with legs like that, most are bench lathes.

You will probably have a tough time locating the correct tailstock for that, your best
bet would be to purchase one from another type of lathe, prefereably a two-piece
tailstock, and make a new lower portion to match your bed profile.

Sloan & Chace Lathes

Is there anything else with a logo in the wooden box under the lathe?

This machine was at one time used in production based on the numbered, riveted
tag on the headstock. Also it has no indexing holes on the headstock pulley, so not
used a precision machine as in watchmaking. Probably best described as a pattern-makers
lathe.

As you say probably very old, with the double V-way bed in combination with the full length
slot in the bed being a good identifier.

Jim,
The spindle has regular 60 deg. threads. They measures right on 1.562", so 1 9/16 - 10.
No, nothing marked on anything in the box. That's all overhead belt/shafting, pulleys, hardware, idlers etc.
Nice to have that other stuff with it.
Thanks,
CWC(4)

I think the "backwards" cone (ie the largest step being furthest from the spindle nose) will very much limit the field of potential makers for this one.

Garvin badge in Texas on a Hamilton

But before their "round" QC box

Lathe - tools - by owner - sale

I found a Garvin Catalogue here
Catalog Record: Illustrated catalogue of ... machine tools,... | Hathi Trust Digital Library
The lathes shown here look different,
Illustrated catalogue of ... machine tools, including universal ... - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
but the slide rest is here
Illustrated catalogue of ... machine tools, including universal ... - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library | HathiTrust Digital Library
I only took a quick look .
Maybe there will be another Garvin catalogue from a different year that shows your lathe somewhere.
Regards,
Jim
P.S.
Another Catalogue here on archive.org,
Garvin Machine Company : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
and the 1900 catalogue same as above.
Internet Archive Search: Garvin Machinery

Jim Christie said:

I found a Garvin Catalogue here

Click to expand...

Jim, both of those Garvin catalogs are in the Sticky "Scans, Manuals, Books, Links, Images" at the top of the forum page.

This lathe is not shown in any of my Garvin catalogs.
I have quite a few Garvin catalogs from 1884 to 1916.
It is not even shown in the 1904 catalog of other makers that Garvin sold.

Rob

I didn't know Garvin was in Manhattan-had a few days there with Mrs T as a prize from Microsoft back in 1995. I rescued a very nice Garvin vertical mill and a few other pieces in Peckham. It was a really nice machine in all respects-I passed it on to a friend though,as I decided my old Becker was quite sufficient. I remember it had a really unusual gearbox for the feeds.

Pictures of their old factory in New York and their newer one in New York(which is still there) after their old one had a fire.
One of their vertical mills.
I have one of their No.4 geared horizontal mill.

Rob

Here is my Garvin #22 vertical mill, unfortunately the rotary table did not come with the machine. My mill is a little older than the one in the cut as mine does not have a telescoping screw for the knee so it needs a hole in the floor for the screw to go down.

Thanks to one and all for the replies and help. This is one of the reasons why I love this place, what a wealth of knowledge & generosity.
I guess I have some catalog reading ahead.
Thanks,
CWC(4)

enginebill said:

Here is my Garvin #22 vertical mill, unfortunately the rotary table did not come with the machine. My mill is a little older than the one in the cut as mine does not have a telescoping screw for the knee so it needs a hole in the floor for the screw to go down.

Click to expand...

The mill was sold with or without the rotary table.
From the 1900 catalog.

Rob

enginebill said:

Here is my Garvin #22 vertical mill, unfortunately the rotary table did not come with the machine. My mill is a little older than the one in the cut as mine does not have a telescoping screw for the knee so it needs a hole in the floor for the screw to go down.

Click to expand...

Amazing. Is that a two jaw chuck on the spindle of that machine?

jim rozen said:

Amazing. Is that a two jaw chuck on the spindle of that machine?

Click to expand...

Well, yes it is, but technically it's in the spindle.

enginebill said:

Here is my Garvin #22 vertical mill

Click to expand...

Bill, if you ever want to get rid of that old eyesore I could find room for it here.

Rob