Old Lathe ID help
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default Old Lathe ID help

    All,

    I've just acquired my first-ever lathe, and would like some help figuring out what it is.

    I forgot to take more pics in the daylight, but will post additional shots tomorrow.

    I cannot find any make or model number. The only major meaningful marking appears to be "PATP Feb 15 1887" on the back side of the bed.

    EDIT: A quick search yielded a patent for that date for W. F. Barnes, and the illustrations in the patent application look eerily similar, though my eyes aren't exactly trained to see the important details here.

    In any case, hoping someone here can elaborate on exactly what this is.


    Thanks very kindly!

    old-lathe-pic-1.jpg
    old-lathe-pic-2.jpg
    Last edited by Philosophy Guy; 10-28-2020 at 12:18 AM. Reason: Found a patent that matches this?

  2. Likes Limy Sami liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    1,628
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    125
    Likes (Received)
    685

    Default

    W.F. & John Barnes, Rockford Ill.

    Rob

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Thank you!

    Any idea what model this is?

    EDIT: Maybe the 4 1/2? Here is the plate:

    barnes-plate-pic.jpg

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stratham, Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    4,458
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    518
    Likes (Received)
    1875

    Default

    4-1/2 in a later "benchtop" version. The legs are not exactly like any I've seen but are probably original.
    Earlier versions of this lathe are told by a "bead edge" on the major headstock and tailstock casting. This lathe I would put to early 20th century - post grid power.

    The nameplate is the same nameplate used on the front of the usual left floor standing leg. I've not seen this location before.

    The bead edge barnes lathes were a generation earlier. (1880s)

    Joe in NH

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Thanks very kindly!

    I'll probably be filling this thread up with questions as I tear this thing down and rebuild it.

    For starters, what is the best lubricant to use on reassembly? I'm doing it a couple pieces at a time to avoid misplacing/mixing up parts. The compound and tail stock are all disassembled and cleaned up. Assuming it's going to be either grease or oil, and maybe different for different parts, but just trying to get a primer on this.

    I'm already in heaven getting into this thing.

    Thanks very kindly all!

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,485
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    760
    Likes (Received)
    4327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophy Guy View Post
    ...I'll probably be filling this thread up with questions as I tear this thing down and rebuild it...
    Now that you know the ID, start a new thread with the ID in the title. It helps future readers who search for posts about that kind of lathe. The old title is useless in that regard.

    For instance: W.F. & John Barnes, Rockford IL 4-1/2 Bench Lathe

    Larry

  8. Likes rjs44032, ClappedOutBport liked this post
  9. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Thank you. That makes sense, and will do.

    Just saw the sticky on what kind of pics to post here for ID purposes, so I'm going to post up some more today, together with some measurements, as I'm now seeing a number of cases in which the #5 has the 4 1/2 plate on it.

    Thanks again.

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    20,684
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    16108
    Likes (Received)
    16539

    Default

    That looks a nice one - take care taking it apart - to the uninitiated some machine tools have mechanical ''twists'' not seen elsewhere.

    Rule #1 through 10 BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HAMMERS & LEVERS

  11. Likes Hudson liked this post
  12. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    9,009
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1455
    Likes (Received)
    5952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    That looks a nice one - take care taking it apart - to the uninitiated some machine tools have mechanical ''twists'' not seen elsewhere.

    Rule #1 through 10 BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HAMMERS & LEVERS
    I only had two rules for dismantling machines Sami -
    1) Don't break anything.
    2) Don't lose anything.

    At the risk of offending our American colleagues can I just say I cringe whenever I read the expressions " tear down " or " tearing down ". It gives the wrong impression.

    Regards Tyrone.

  13. Likes dundeeshopnut liked this post
  14. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Thank you, gents!

    And if it makes you feel any better, I also don't particularly care for the phrase, "tearing down," for the same reasons.

    Perhaps "gently disassemble with awe and humility" does a nicer job of expressing the sentiment.

    And yes, it seems, aside from a little cosmetic wear here and there, to be in very good condition.

    All the tools are still with it, the gears are immaculate, the spindle turns absolutely silently with no perceived slop anywhere, and while there is a lot of crud on everything, the carriage, slides, and tail stock run butter smooth.

    For all its age, I've had no issues (thus far) taking things apart.

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Country
    CANADA
    State/Province
    Quebec
    Posts
    103
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    223
    Likes (Received)
    73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    I only had two rules for dismantling machines Sami -
    1) Don't break anything.
    2) Don't lose anything.

    At the risk of offending our American colleagues can I just say I cringe whenever I read the expressions " tear down " or " tearing down ". It gives the wrong impression.

    Regards Tyrone.
    I guessing the expression "blow it apart" would be in the same list?

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Okay, more pics as promised. Hope these are helpful. My apologies for the lighting. Wasn't able to take any during the day. One thing that came up as a question mark was the bed length. Not sure if that makes a difference between the models, but this one has a bed length of 40".

    Now to the pics:

    old-lathe-pic-3.jpg
    old-lathe-pic-4.jpg
    old-lathe-pic-5.jpg
    old-lathe-pic-6.jpg
    old-lathe-pic-7.jpg

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    630
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    569
    Likes (Received)
    194

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Limy Sami View Post
    That looks a nice one - take care taking it apart - to the uninitiated some machine tools have mechanical ''twists'' not seen elsewhere.

    Rule #1 through 10 BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HAMMERS & LEVERS
    3rd story window will disassemble anything quickly. Man dragging my SB16 up there to rebuild the headstock was a PAIN!

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Manchester, England
    Posts
    9,009
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1455
    Likes (Received)
    5952

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dundeeshopnut View Post
    I guessing the expression "blow it apart" would be in the same list?
    I prefer " persuade " it apart. You start out with minimum force and gradually increase the level of force until you have a successful conclusion.

    Regards Tyrone.

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stratham, Cow Hampshire
    Posts
    4,458
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    518
    Likes (Received)
    1875

    Default

    My very standard Barnes 4-1/2 (legs and Velocipede) is 40 inches bed. I'm not aware that Barnes made any other lengths of the 4-1/2 machine.

    My very standard Barnes 5 (legs and Velocipede) is 51 inches bed. Barnes DID make other lengths, particularly at the end of production, to include a "Gap Bed" style lathe that would turn up to (say) 15" diameter for a short distance past the head stock.

    And of course there was the larger No. 6 and it's variants.

    Generally the 4-1/2 is the most common. It was the cheapest full screw cutting lathe, and commonly bought by off-grid users. It could be ordered in the morning at the local telegraph office, and would be delivered nationwide THE NEXT MORNING at the local railroad depot in two possibly three wooden crates. And this in 1890! Amazon is nothing new!

    For every two 4-1/2s in the world I would estimate one No. 5 - price the original driving factor. For every five 4-1/2s in the world I would estimate one No. 6 or its number variants. The large machines are considerably rarer.

    More written up on the Barnes variants at Tony's most excellent site. Barnes Lathes

    Good luck!

    Joe in NH

  20. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    33
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Awesome! Thank you all so much!

    I'll be starting a new thread with specific questions as I work through this thing.

    Cheers!


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •